CF newbie - Journey OF660

KFP55 · #1 10-05-2017, 09:09 AM

Hi all,
I have been intrigued by CF guitars for some time and finally got to play one while traveling for work this week. As luck would have it, the store I popped into in Toronto (12th Fret - AWESOME shop) had the Journey OF660 I had been eyeing on the web in-stock. I thought the tone was great - but the playability was atrocious. The owner/tech was equally shocked and immediately starting working on it to set it up properly (we tried the other saddle to no avail). So while I finally got my hands on one, I was unable to play it properly set up and am unlikely to get another shot at it as I was only in town for the day.

I have a few questions for those of you fortunate enough to have played a few, well-set-up models:

Is Journey a good brand? I've formed my own opinions on wood acoustics after playing hundreds of them, but have no sense of range on CF models. How much do they vary across brands - in quality and in tone? There are just so many brands and options and so few available to try..
My job has me on the road 2-3 nights a week and I've been trying hard to find a good solution for a travel guitar. I have a Little Martin and GS mini but find it too inconvenient to travel with either. I have a Traveler Guitar - very convenient but nothing like a real guitar. So I have been intrigued by the fold-ability of the Journey OF and thought it was even better in person. Are there other options worth checking out of is this the gold standard of "air travel" guitars?
My ultimate goal for a CF guitar would be business travel as well as backporch picking by the fire through the winter (I'm in Boston.....with young children....and Winter is Coming...). unlikely to ever play this out, but want a good sounding guitar that's at least in line with my GS mini.

Thanks in advance for the input!

Acousticado · #2 10-05-2017, 09:16 AM

For your needs, the OF660 is likely your best option. I have never tried one, but most who have reported here are quite pleased with it, so perhaps the particular one you tried had issues. I’m sure some owners will chime-in. I own a CA Cargo which, after almost 10 years owning it since new (can’t believe it’s been that long), is the guitar I would personally prefer for your needs, or I’d buy an Emerald X7, neither of which fold, but are small enough to not be a problem at all, even on planes. But since you said the little Martin is not suitable for you, I assume those I mentioned wouldn’t work for you either. The Blackbird Rider may be another travel size option.

rmoretti49 · #3 10-05-2017, 02:26 PM

I own the OF660. Mine arrived with an unacceptably high setup. Much of the problem was that the nut slots were not deep enough. Once corrected it played easily. I love its convenience for travel (I, too, used to have a Little Martin), and its resistance to the elements (in my case, leaving it on a boat). But it also has become my go-to couch guitar. It is a bit quiet, but that, too, improved with Ernie Ball aluminum bronze strings. I like the tone a great deal. Very resonant bass. I've never played any other of the CF guitars that people post about here, and I am willing to accept that some of them might sound better. But as a total package, the OF660 is pretty hard to beat if you want a travel guitar and more.

I do wish they would get their act together concerning the out-of-the-box setup.

Methos1979 · #4 10-05-2017, 03:02 PM

I owned the OF660 for a year or so and it was an excellent guitar. The playability was great for me. I did however buy it used from someone here on AGF so I cannot attest to how good it was 'out of the box' from the manufacturer.

I loved everything about that little guitar. The only reason I sold it was because I recently picked up an Emerald X7 September Series which is also a great little CF travel guitar. It was a hard choice but since I didn't need the uber-small carry-on ability (we don't fly much) the X7 won but mostly because it was just newer and much better looking. The X7 is better sounding unplugged but the OF660 was much better plugged in as I like their K&K type pickup system vs the UST on the X7.

Captain Jim · #5 10-05-2017, 03:30 PM

Sounds to me like the OF660 you tried is simply in need of a good set-up. Once that is done, it shouldn't change with the assembly/disassembly. I don't have one, but reviews from those on this forum who do have them have been positive. If you want/need the removable neck, they are the only option in carbon fiber. If you don't need that, there are other options that are smaller, better sound, and more comfortable than the GSmini (I have a GSmini and - my preference - an Emerald X7).

Acousticado · #6 10-05-2017, 04:23 PM

OP, as a Journey dealer, hopefully Ted@LAGuitarSales will chime-in here. If anyone will know the answer, it’ll be him. If you buy one from him, you’ll know it’ll be setup as it should be/to your preference.

ac · #7 10-05-2017, 05:18 PM

Hmmmm. My Journey was great out of the box. The setup was as near to perfect for me as I could want. I play with quite low action, finger style, and have not needed to adjust anything. I assumed they were all like mine. I don't believe they had included an extra saddle at the time I got mine.

I think it's a great guitar. Emerald has great ergonomics, but Journey has the same plus the wedge design. It is a very comfortable guitar. More quiet than the X7, but a very different and pleasing tone.

I'll be interested to hear what others with the Journey have experienced.

Res Ipsa · #8 10-05-2017, 05:48 PM

I have an OF660. How I set it up: I installed the short saddle, then I eliminated all relief in the neck by adjusting the truss rod to make the fretboard dead level. Next I added relief in tiny increments until string buzzing ceased. Now it's close to perfect for my fingerstyle playing. No issue with nut slots on mine.

Of my three CF acoustics (Rainsong Parlor P12, Shorty, and OF660), the OF660 is what I grab for couch use. I love its warm tone. For porch play I prefer the Shorty because it's louder than the other two (to my neighbors' chagrin perhaps).

For flying, camping and kayaking, the OF660 suits my needs perfectly.

dhodgeh · #9 10-05-2017, 06:11 PM

I have one of these.

Out of the box, I found that both of the supplied saddles were a bit lose. I had a Taylor style saddle that I was not using, so I sanded it down to fit in the OF6600.

I then adjust to relief to my satisfaction, and now have a great playing and sounding guitars in my stable.

D

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales · #10 10-06-2017, 09:11 AM

Tom, thanks for the kind words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFP55

Hi all,
I have been intrigued by CF guitars for some time and finally got to play one while traveling for work this week. As luck would have it, the store I popped into in Toronto (12th Fret - AWESOME shop) had the Journey OF660 I had been eyeing on the web in-stock. I thought the tone was great - but the playability was atrocious. The owner/tech was equally shocked and immediately starting working on it to set it up properly (we tried the other saddle to no avail). So while I finally got my hands on one, I was unable to play it properly set up and am unlikely to get another shot at it as I was only in town for the day.

I have a few questions for those of you fortunate enough to have played a few, well-set-up models:

Is Journey a good brand? I've formed my own opinions on wood acoustics after playing hundreds of them, but have no sense of range on CF models. How much do they vary across brands - in quality and in tone? There are just so many brands and options and so few available to try..
My job has me on the road 2-3 nights a week and I've been trying hard to find a good solution for a travel guitar. I have a Little Martin and GS mini but find it too inconvenient to travel with either. I have a Traveler Guitar - very convenient but nothing like a real guitar. So I have been intrigued by the fold-ability of the Journey OF and thought it was even better in person. Are there other options worth checking out of is this the gold standard of "air travel" guitars?
My ultimate goal for a CF guitar would be business travel as well as backporch picking by the fire through the winter (I'm in Boston.....with young children....and Winter is Coming...). unlikely to ever play this out, but want a good sounding guitar that's at least in line with my GS mini.

Thanks in advance for the input!

KFP55,

Journey has been a fantastic company to deal with. I met Rob five or six years ago at Winter NAMM and became a dealer right then and there. Since then over a hundred dealers have picked up the brand, and they now have a US distribution/customer service facility in Texas. We were one of their first dealers, and remain their #1 dealer today, so as you can imagine I handle a lot of their guitars. Setup on these guitars tends to be rather good, but there is always room for improvement.

As you know, the guitars come with two saddles, they ship with a higher one, and a lower saddle can be found in the case. Over the years I found that dropping in the low saddle will provide the standard 6/64th 5/64th action height found on most new guitars today, so I have not bothered to go lower on mine. It's possible that the guitar you tried was off somehow, or maybe the neck wasn't seated properly.

As to the guitar itself, sounds like it would be just right for what you are describing. The OF660 has a wonderfully warm tone, and packs in the high quality TSA compliant case provided, so you will never have any problems traveling with it. The K&K style electronics provided are a nice bonus as well. When not in use, it can literally live in the trunk of your car, regardless of the weather.

Bottom line, Journey is an outstanding company, and the guitars have been well received. You can't go wrong.

#11 10-06-2017, 09:46 AM

Ted has the most experience and best judgment regarding the Journey. I do not have one but I listened to Rob's forum dialogue through the experience of bringing the guitar to fruition and I was impressed. The process was not easy and Rob did not rush the R&D--in short, Journey is not a fly-by-night company.

I've also followed the forum comments regarding the Journey and it's clear that some people have had problems with setup. What's also clear is that the problems are resolvable. My suspicion is that the problems are the same problems that can found in any guitar since setup is a somewhat personal matter.

Methos1979 · #12 10-06-2017, 10:56 AM

Another possibility is that the neck mechanism was not tightened enough. You really need to tighten that down hard to get the stability for staying in tune and probably correct neck angle.

ac · #13 10-06-2017, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Another possibility is that the neck mechanism was not tightened enough. You really need to tighten that down hard to get the stability for staying in tune and probably correct neck angle.

Yes. I tighten mine down with all my strength and then check it a few days later and tighten again. Usually, it's at it's maximum. Sometimes, I feel it tighten just a very tiny bit more on the second try--after that--there's no more movement.

But you DO need to tighten it as much as you possibly can. The fittings are all stainless steel and super strong.

PeteCady · #14 10-06-2017, 11:21 AM

Good news and bad news:

Good: I now have an OF660 (OF660B, actually - the blue top), and I love it. Haven't traveled with it yet, but certainly hope to. Meanwhile, it's my "go to" instrument for playing at home, by myself, and often for social gatherings where a lot of people are playing in limited space, and it's easier to deal with without bumping into other folks or their instruments. Have Martin "FX" (low-tension) PB medium gauge strings (except for keeping .12 and .16 trebles) on it now, to bring out more bass in spite of the shorter scale. With them, the power seems comparable to most 000-size instruments. And the action is still good.

Bad: It's the second one I've had. I bought the first one used from a private seller, without trying it, and never could get the tone power OR action I wanted, even after messing around for quite a while with bridge adjustments and string changes. I resold it. Tried an Emerald X7 that Elderly had for sale, used. It was too weak also. I resold it. I had about given up on finding a small "travel" guitar that would do the job for me. Then I was in Bozeman, visiting my (middle-aged) "children," and, of course went into Music Villa a couple of times. They had a couple of new OF660s in stock, so I gave them a perfunctory try. And this particular one sat up and talked to me. I played it for quite a while, OUTSIDE of the "acoustic room," and broke down and bought it in spite of myself. And it's been great.

With regard to the Journey guitars, the lesson is that there's considerable variation between specific specimens of the same model. So, if you buy one, better you buy in a store, face to face, so you can actually play the particular one you're buying.

Of course, I don't know if the variation is random, or if it's a matter of the earlier ones having problems that were worked out over time. I hope it's the latter.

Peter.

dragonfly66 · #15 10-06-2017, 11:46 AM

I own a red OF-660 with the newer design where the sound hole is near the top of the upper bout. I bought mine from Acoustic Vibes Music (acousticvibesmusic.com) - a great place to shop if you are in the Phoenix area, Jeff, Kathryn, and Benny are good people. Benny setup my OF-660 before I got it so I'm not sure how it was out of the box. The OF-660 can be set up like any other guitar so I'm surprised the tech couldn't get an acceptable setup on it.

In terms of a travel guitar, especially if you are flying, the OF-660 is perfect. It is very compact when in its case and I can put my laptop, iPad, phone, and chargers in the bag along with my strap, cable, jam 96k, mic 96k, cables, tuner, picks, capo. The bag is a heavy bag after adding all of that stuff, but it all fits and still meet the FAA's carry-on requirements. Check out this video of all the stuff you can fit in the bag, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQJV2-QyitA. For the price, I'm not sure you can beat the convenience. The best thing is that you don't sacrifice the scale length as you would with other guitars like the Little Martin and GS Mini.

As for the sound, acoustically it sounds good. I tried a Cargo once and thought it sounded ok. I haven't tried any other travel sized CF guitars. The OF-660 sounds best with the Elixer Nano PB 12s that come on it. I've tried other PB and 80/20 strings and they don't sound as good as the Elixers. I use D'Addario PB and Martin Retros on the rest of my guitars. The OF-660 projects well but isn't super loud. Plugged-in, it sounds fabulous. It is a passive pickup so you may need a pre-amp in some situations.

I am very pleased with the OF-660 after having had a Little Martin, two GS Minis, Martin D Jr and Voyage-Air. I have had experience with the owner of Journey Instruments and it has all been good. I would give them another try if the OF-660 ticks all of your boxes for a travel guitar.