Dust In The Wind

[FwL]

You can try moving from your G chord to this F chord:

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If you can get that happening then just leave off the 3rd finger on the D string.

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[5th Element]

Originally Posted by Taylor414ce

I find if I'm not careful I avoid playing the last open G note on the G with my picking hand in order to give me more time to execute the Dm7. When you play that last open G note on the G chord it really doesn't leave much time to play the opening pinch on Dm7.

Perhaps you can practice going back and forth between G and Dm7 until it becomes natural. The last bass note of G and the first bass note of Dm7 both are D, so the thumb just hits that note twice in a row. I pick that last open G note with my index, then the F of the Dm7 with my middle, so there's really no timing issue for the pinch. With your ring finger on low G, you can poise your index and middle to grab the Dm7. Grabbing that Dm7 quickly and accurately may take some practice.

It can be helpful to work on fragments, such as this G > Dm7 transition. Play the problem fragment for 3-4 minutes as slowly as necessary to play it correctly, move on, then come back to it again later in your practice session. Repeat. You'll get it.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by 5th Element

One thing that can make playing in open position a little more difficult is the nut. The slots often are left too high, requiring extra pressure at the the first fret.

That used to be true in the old days, but it seems much rarer today, even on quite cheap guitars (judging from my students' instruments).

But I agree it's something worth checking. The strings should be no harder to press down on 1st than they are on 2nd fret with a capo on 1. Capos make the action perfect (at least at that end of the guitar), and that's exactly how it should feel in open position with no capo.

If not - set-up recommended!

[Taylor414ce]

Originally Posted by 5th Element

Perhaps you can practice going back and forth between G and Dm7 until it becomes natural. The last bass note of G and the first bass note of Dm7 both are D, so the thumb just hits that note twice in a row. I pick that last open G note with my index, then the F of the Dm7 with my middle, so there's really no timing issue for the pinch. With your ring finger on low G, you can poise your index and middle to grab the Dm7. Grabbing that Dm7 quickly and accurately may take some practice.

It can be helpful to work on fragments, such as this G > Dm7 transition. Play the problem fragment for 3-4 minutes as slowly as necessary to play it correctly, move on, then come back to it again later in your practice session. Repeat. You'll get it.

Thank you I had my weekly lesson today and he said the same, keep practicing at a slower speed and build it up. It is getting better and I'm working very hard every day repeating it over and over again so I guess I was having a moan and looking for others to say 'yes it's a tough change at first' to make me feel better! Appreciate all the replies

[Pitar]

The way you play your open G is going to need to be changed from the first to the 2nd three fingers. It's a better method of placing that chord when anticipating other first position chords as well as shifting to barre chords. It leaves the index finger the free agent to rapidly place the barre. It will make the shift to Dm easier. I found that out early on. Develop full use of your fingers. If you don't work that out now you will become very adept at limiting yourself in the future.

[Taylor414ce]

Originally Posted by Pitar

The way you play your open G is going to need to be changed from the first to the 2nd three fingers. It's a better method of placing that chord when anticipating other first position chords as well as shifting to barre chords. It leaves the index finger the free agent to rapidly place the barre. It will make the shift to Dm easier. I found that out early on. Develop full use of your fingers. If you don't work that out now you will become very adept at limiting yourself in the future.

Hi Pitar, thanks but think you have misunderstood my post. I am playing the G chord with my 3rd finger so my index and 2nd finger are free to prepare for the Dm7.

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by Taylor414ce

Hi Pitar, thanks but think you have misunderstood my post. I am playing the G chord with my 3rd finger so my index and 2nd finger are free to prepare for the Dm7.

Maybe I did incorrectly visualize your placement. I use my 3rd and 4th fingers on the G notes at the 3rd frets of the E-strings (3rd finger low G) and my middle finger on the B note on the 2nd fret of the A-string. This allows the little finger to move one string down to the D note on the 3rd fret of the 2nd string pretty easily. The floating index finger falls onto the F note on the high E-string 1st fret and the middle finger shifts to the C# note on the 2nd fret of the 2nd string. This might have been a difficult change for me at an early period but I revisited the song to review how I actually shift from the G chord as I've described it here to the Dm chord, for this post.

What I tend to do with all music I play is understand the single note progressions (successions) and shift from chord to chord synchronous to the leading notes of each chord. If I need to sound the F note of the Dm as the 1st note of that chord I will place my index finger there before completing the chord with the other fingers. They will follow quickly to the ensure the next notes they are responsible for holding are played when needed. This comes from a lot of repetitive chord changes (practicing, ad nausea) and finally realizing that I do not need to completely place each succeeding chord. You might consider this method of changing chords. It requires a bit more thought about the dynamics of playing any particular song but once developed it serves to reduce the effort and coordination required to reshape the hand from one chord to the next in a split second. This is the difference between placing a chord and grabbing at it.

[Taylor414ce]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Maybe I did incorrectly visualize your placement. I use my 3rd and 4th fingers on the G notes at the 3rd frets of the E-strings (3rd finger low G) and my middle finger on the B note on the 2nd fret of the A-string. This allows the little finger to move one string down to the D note on the 3rd fret of the 2nd string pretty easily. The floating index finger falls onto the F note on the high E-string 1st fret and the middle finger shifts to the C# note on the 2nd fret of the 2nd string. This might have been a difficult change for me at an early period but I revisited the song to review how I actually shift from the G chord as I've described it here to the Dm chord, for this post.

What I tend to do with all music I play is understand the single note progressions (successions) and shift from chord to chord synchronous to the leading notes of each chord. If I need to sound the F note of the Dm as the 1st note of that chord I will place my index finger there before completing the chord with the other fingers. They will follow quickly to the ensure the next notes they are responsible for holding are played when needed. This comes from a lot of repetitive chord changes (practicing, ad nausea) and finally realizing that I do not need to completely place each succeeding chord. You might consider this method of changing chords. It requires a bit more thought about the dynamics of playing any particular song but once developed it serves to reduce the effort and coordination required to reshape the hand from one chord to the next in a split second. This is the difference between placing a chord and grabbing at it.

The basic G chord on Dust In The Wind (ignoring any vocal melody lines) only requires the low E string to be fretted so in some respects it should be quite an easy transition given both the index and 2nd finger can be ready to execute the Dm7 but for some reason it's not that easy! I suspect it's the barre element of Dm7 which is the tricky bit but I am still a beginner so I suppose can't really expect it to be super smooth yet but it's getting better.

I don't usually use my 3rd finger on the low E string when playing a G chord, normally 3rd finger would be on the B string with pinky on the high E but on this song only one fretted note is played on the G chord so it makes more sense using finger 3 given the next chord is Dm7.

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by Taylor414ce

The basic G chord on Dust In The Wind (ignoring any vocal melody lines) only requires the low E string to be fretted so in some respects it should be quite an easy transition given both the index and 2nd finger can be ready to execute the Dm7 but for some reason it's not that easy! I suspect it's the barre element of Dm7 which is the tricky bit but I am still a beginner so I suppose can't really expect it to be super smooth yet but it's getting better.

I don't usually use my 3rd finger on the low E string when playing a G chord, normally 3rd finger would be on the B string with pinky on the high E but on this song only one fretted note is played on the G chord so it makes more sense using finger 3 given the next chord is Dm7.

The chords I use effectively for that song are Cmaj, Am, Gmaj and Dm for the verses and add the Fmaj in the interlude mix. The Cmaj and Am share the same walk down/up on the B-string from the D, C and open notes, and then reversing it back up to the D note for the opening of the song. From there it's the melody of those same chords beneath the lyrics. I use full chords and sound every note to embellish the melody somewhat beyond Livgren's original framework. I don't hear a Dm7 in that song. Never did. I find the C# note in that chord to be off-color for the progression and use instead the Dm with it's D note. This eliminates the barre across the high E and B strings at the 1st fret and replaces it with the full Dm triad.

[Guitar Slim II]

No, there's definitely a Dm7 in there, second chord of the 2nd line of the verse, and again on the 4th line.

One thing I've never quite figured out. On the original studio recording, is it played on a 12-string? Sometimes it sounds to me like there is more harmony in there than just octave strings, that maybe there's a second six-string, capoed up, playing harmony?

Anyone know how it's really done?

[StevenL]

Originally Posted by pf400

I've been using Dm not Dm7 for about 35 years !

Same here. I don't hear Dm7 there. Online search... some have Dm7, some have Dm. Sticking with Dm til The End.