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  #46  
Old 01-27-2015, 11:28 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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...I guess I should offer to buy the one with the fret issues! ...
FYI, I sold that particular guitar and as usual it was inspected before we shipped it out. Although I understand that the end user will scrutinize their purchase more than we might, we found it well within normal specs. Once we found out the customer found some issues we offered to take the guitar back, but since I could not guarantee an ETA for a replacement I suggested contacting Journey. Again, we didn't see anything out of the ordinary, but if Journey decides it needs tweaking, they will take care of it and ship it to the next dealer in line.
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2015, 11:34 PM
mick335 mick335 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
FYI, I sold that particular guitar and as usual it was inspected before we shipped it out. Although I understand that the end user will scrutinize their purchase more than we might, we found it well within normal specs. Once we found out the customer found some issues we offered to take the guitar back, but since I could not guarantee an ETA for a replacement I suggested contacting Journey. Again, we didn't see anything out of the ordinary, but if Journey decides it needs tweaking, they will take care of it and ship it to the next dealer in line.
I totally understand both parties here....horses for courses, I guess. I'm sure I would be happy with it though 😄
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  #48  
Old 01-28-2015, 02:22 AM
Ronnie RedZone Ronnie RedZone is offline
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We have one OF660 carbon fiber left in stock.

We also have an all-solid Overhead OF531 with Cedar top and Mahogany back & sides, and one Sitka/Rosewood OF420 with laminate back & sides.

Our OF660 is here.

The OF531 and the OF420 aren't yet on our website. Please PM me if interested.
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2015, 04:41 AM
Ronnie RedZone Ronnie RedZone is offline
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Duplicate post.
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Taylor Custom GA Cedar/Maple
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  #50  
Old 01-28-2015, 11:35 AM
mick335 mick335 is offline
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Thanks Ronnie! Appreciate the message!


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Originally Posted by Ronnie RedZone View Post
We have one OF660 carbon fiber left in stock.

We also have an all-solid Overhead OF531 with Cedar top and Mahogany back & sides, and one Sitka/Rosewood OF420 with laminate back & sides.

Our OF660 is here.

The OF531 and the OF420 aren't yet on our website. Please PM me if interested.
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  #51  
Old 01-30-2015, 09:39 AM
MBE MBE is offline
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This thread continues to be one of the worst GAS-provokers on this forum for me...
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  #52  
Old 01-30-2015, 06:08 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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This thread continues to be one of the worst GAS-provokers on this forum for me...

If it helps...I played a few at NAMM and really like them....your welcome







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  #53  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:19 AM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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I have one here on trial. I am not going to consider it but am glad to have it here. The fit and finish were as nice as they could possibly be and I really like the smooth feel of the fretboard, which goes, incidentally to high C. The case is truly outstanding, both well-made and well-designed. It is tight for both the body and the neck, but they do fit. The guitar is simple to assemble and takes seconds. It makes a neat sort of boing sound when you do that. I am not sure it needs the screw to hold it in place, though I used it. It is neat to be able to put a hand inside the guitar without removing the strings. There is no internal bracing but there is an inexplicable stud coming up from the back near the label.

I found the neck was a little too straight. Maybe the truss rod will adjust that, but that's not for me to do. It was smooth and had a good feel. And the action was a bit high, not bad, but some tweaking would improve it. I like the 1/3/4 nut but find the string spacing a bit closer than expected. I did not have trouble fingerpicking it however. The tuners are fine and the side dots on the fingerboard, while small, are easy enough to see.

But I did not like it. Why? First, it is way too quiet. Good for playing in a hotel room, but not satisfying and if an instrument does not satisfy me, I won't be playing it. I have little use for a travel guitar per se, but do have a use for one I can take camping, leave in the back of the car, take to festivals, that sort of thing. They gave up too much volume just to make it fit in the overhead. (Yes, I know they started with the premise that this guitar was going to fit, and it was built around that idea.) I will say that it is FAR louder with a flatpick. All guitars are louder but the difference here was more marked than usual. If you use a flatpick, you may not feel it is too quiet. Fingerpicked, with flesh, it just sounds dead to me. The sound I heard was emblematic of what others hear too - poor projection.

But that's not all: its sound is uninspiring, completely uncolored. It lacked anything to distinguish it. Maybe we need wood to accomplish that? I played a Blackbird for a week some time ago and found it to be a little that way. On the whole it was FAR more satisfying to play and to hear, though, and is something I can recommend. I am sidetracking myself.

I have some other objections to the Journey. It's intonation is off. After carefully tuning it, I put the tuner on the 12th fret and found each sting off 1/3 a step or so. Not good. It is surprisingly heavy, given carbon fiber's reputation for lightness. Maybe the massive interior heel block need to hold the neck to the body is responsible for this. It is noticeably heavier than my L00 which is significantly larger. It weighs like a full-size normally built guitar. I don't feel a lot of vibration when I play it, not like other guitars. There is some of course. Tap on the top and it is deader than I am used to. It's sustain is quite adequate in the bass, but much less so in the treble. When I first assembled it, the G string caught in the screw on the truss rod cover; that's just sloppy assembly at the plant. The top shows fingerprints and smudges easily, something others have noted, and no big deal. There is no pickguard, but that is easily remedied and perhaps it doesn't need it. I am not someone who needs a cutaway to play, but I didn't feel the scoopaway (which is a neat idea) added as much access as I expected. Maybe you will feel different. I did find it comfortable to play, other than my elbow was bent more than I want (which is a function of the small scale) .

The small scale and size is something I don't particularly care for, but that's not a complaint as I fully knew what to expect ahead of time. But it feels that the pictures I see of people playing one must have all be smaller-than-average folks. Let's be fair: you can't accomplish what Journey set out to do and make it much larger, not unless you eliminate padding in the case.

Now to put this in some perspective: my own guitars are nearly all very fine instruments and each cost considerably more than the Journey does - so comparing them to the Journey is not very fair, though it's what I have. If I really needed a travel guitar, I might think differently about a number of things I moan about here. When compared to most other travel guitars, it probably would not be called too quiet. I have been waiting for 2 years to see and play one of these and have communicated often with Rob and some of the folks who now sell them and have nothing but good to say about their openness and prompt willingness to discuss my concerns. But at the end, it did not live up to my hopes. Perhaps those were inflated. At any rate, I am glad to have had the chance to play it and get that out of my system!
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  #54  
Old 02-14-2015, 05:55 PM
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invguy921 invguy921 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
Now to put this in some perspective: my own guitars are nearly all very fine instruments and each cost considerably more than the Journey does - so comparing them to the Journey is not very fair, though it's what I have. If I really needed a travel guitar, I might think differently about a number of things I moan about here. When compared to most other travel guitars, it probably would not be called too quiet.
Well, I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions and observations. I am pretty sure (but not absolutely certain) that I was the first to comment on the Journey instruments on AGF. The first was an early wood model and then the second was the OF660.

In the interest of time, I'm going to touch on a few points of significance to this thread.

1) I personally think these little guitars ROCK.

2) I think the design of the guitar and the case are so significantly revolutionary that I personally called Rob and told him I thought he needed to show them on Shark Tank.

3) To your point, these guitars are not as loud as some of mine. I'd have been SHOCKED if it were. In all of the things Journey has done well, they haven't defeated the simple laws of physics. You can only get so much sound out of a small box.

4) Played fingerstyle, the OF660 is a smooth operator, and yes softer projection but for me very enjoyable.

5) Compared to guitars in it's price range, the OF660 blows them away. And I think that the Blackbird "lucky 13" with comparable electronics (which are standard on the OF660) is approximately twice the price.

6) If you're not a traveler, you'll never see the full advantage of this package. The traveler who has had to check his guitar at the gate fully understands the advantages of the amazing overhead case.

7) I've had zero issues with intonation. In fact, I love the fact that in my "guitar room" the OF660 stays in tune far better than my more expensive guitars.

It seems like there are a few here that have had unique or different experiences than I have. Over the past couple of years, I've had a number of conversations with fellow guitarists about my original thread and the Journey guitars. Virtually everyone has been very positive about their personal experience and thanked me for the "heads up".

One thing I do know for certain is that Rob (owner of Journey Instruments) is a great guy and a super business man. I've heard of very few issues but I have found that he will be the first to step up and make resolution or restitution if needed to satisfy a customer. All in all, I think the Journey product is a bargain for the price.
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  #55  
Old 02-15-2015, 04:06 AM
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Thanks much invguy921, very helpful.
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  #56  
Old 02-15-2015, 05:38 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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I'm glad that you find the Journey 660 different, and better, than I did. We are approaching things from somewhat different angles and I tried to make my predisposition obvious. Although I had anxiously awaited its arrival and had communicated many times with Rob and McNichol (you could not ask anyone to be more responsive than these two have been!) beforehand, I had refrained from saying much publically until I'd seen on and played it. So, I thought I was set up to be pleased and as soon as I played the first chord, I knew it would not work for me. But that's me. I did not expect any dreadnaught sound, which would be foolish, but I did expect that it would not feel muted to me. And I thought it would have its own sound, but it was so neutral to my ears that I could not find it likeable. Some people may look for something just like that. It's not like it sounded bad or anything.

And you're right that to compare it to the L13 was not entirely fair - but it was the only other CF guitar I had ever played at length, so that was the best I could do. Incidentally, the L13 had a sound that I could like, so it''s not me being against the CF sound.

Your guitar may intonate perfectly and I hope that all the others do as well. My test on this particular one did not turn out that way.

If you have a need for something that fits in the overhead and need to be 100% confidant about it, it may be the best choice out there that sounds and plays like a real guitar. Though a bit of a tight fit, Journey makes a killer case.

I find it interesting to note that wooden guitars can be lighter than CF. Note, I used the word "can". I've owned 2 that were, and both were significantly larger-bodied than the Journey. But I don't buy guitars based upon weight, though I do notice it. It's the same way with size, too (for me).

I have no doubt that the Journey will please many people, and especially those that need its small carrying size. To me, its travel size was icing on the cake, but not critical. If it's critical for someone, the entire equation is reversed.
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Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle
Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia For Sale
Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk
Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany
Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle
MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood
Goodman J45 Lutz/fiddleback Mahogany
Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber
'31 National Duolian
+ many other stringed instruments.
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  #57  
Old 02-16-2015, 12:01 AM
dragonfly66 dragonfly66 is offline
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I wanted to follow-up on the replacement of my OF-660. I received it on Friday and got chance to really play it on Sunday. The original one I received, in addition to the flat frets and high action, had crooked nut slots and the neck was hard to click in. Rob said this sounded like an early model where they had these problems. Rob is a great guy and easy to talk to. He loves what he is doing and you can’t help but be excited about these guitars when you talk to him. Rob immediately offered to replace the guitar. He was apologetic about me not being able to have the guitar for the trip I was planning to take.

The replacement OF-660 has straight nut slots, and the neck is as easy to put in place as you see in the video with the child. The action was still very high (for me), however they all come this way and Rob talked about this previously in this thread, "Specs are string height 2.5-2.7mm at the 12th fret on the low E". Rob said he would send a couple of extra saddles with the replacement since he knew I would be setting it up. I received an extra nut and extra saddle, very handy . I sanded down the saddle so that the action at the 12th was like my Taylors and that made it much easier to play.

The frets are flat in some places, flatter in others, and crowned in others, which is just disturbing to look at, BUT I have NOT found a problem with buzzing because of it. I like my necks straight and this neck is straight. I found the sound warm and little too mellow on the bass side. The treble strings sustain pretty good, but the bass notes are not as present or distinct. I replaced the Elixirs with some Martin 80/20s which helped a bit.

I did notice, as "The Bard Rocks” did, that the OF-660 is not that loud when using your finger pads. It is no where close to the volume of the GS Mini. I wonder if it is the same with the wood versions of the Journey Overhead guitars? I would drown out the guitar if I were to sing in a normal voice while finger picking with the pads of my fingers. This makes it not so good for performing acoustically, but with amplification it is fine. I find myself trying to pick harder to compensate and I can feel it in my fingers after I stop playing. Installing the 80/20s did bring a tad more volume or clarity, not sure which. When playing with a pick it sounds louder and full as you would expect. I understand what "The Bard Rocks" means about the "neutral" sound. It isn't quite as musical as smaller wood guitars I've played. My intonation was off too, but not by much. I'm betting my intonation is off on my Taylor guitars right now too. I don't play that high on my acoustic guitars so this is not a big deal for me. It is heavier at the neck assembly and wants to tip towards the neck if you let the guitar go, but it isn't so noticeable that it is distracting when sitting. If on a strap it will be neck heavy, so use a suede strap.

Now I know that much of the above sounds bad or negative, but I bought this guitar because I wanted a travel guitar I could take on the plane without worrying about checking it. I wanted a travel guitar I could leave in the car/truck/travel trailer and not have to worry about exposure to the cold or the heat. I wanted a travel guitar that wasn’t so small that the fretboard was cramped. I wanted a travel guitar with electronics so I can record tracks easily with my BOSS BR-80 and share them with other musician friends. Sometimes I travel by plane, sometimes by car, and sometimes in a truck with a travel trailer in-tow. This guitar will work perfectly for all of the situations I find myself in while traveling. Prior to this I had a GS Mini (which I must say sounds big and fabulous), but the scale length was just too short to play for any extended period of time, it didn’t come with electronics, and not a safe bet for plane travel as it is big enough that they could ask you to check it. I had a Voyage Air VAOM04, which sounded very good (after installation of ebony bridge pins and bone saddle, which Journey guitars come standard with), and did just fine in the over head compartment on the two plane trips I made with it, but it wasn’t perfect. No electronics, scale length 25.5” (longer than my Taylor concerts), the mis-aligned hinge that caused the frets below the hinge to be higher than the frets above the hinge, that caused buzzing when lowering the saddle for better action, no easy way to adjust the string height at the nut.

The Journey Overhead guitar is what I was looking for. I think the neck assembly is much more stable than the Voyage Air. It is compact, but the scale length is long enough to play comfortably. I have to say the electronics sound really good and balanced. I might have to learn how to play with finger picks or maybe try out some brass bridge pins to bump up the volume on the finger pad playing.
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  #58  
Old 02-16-2015, 08:57 AM
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I went back and listened to the LAGuitars comparison of the 4 small CFguitars and can hear that it's not a loud guitar. The beginning of each piece by the player is played with flesh and is much softer than when he switches to pick.

However, the McPherson and Cargo sounded to me about the same when played with fingers. The Rainsong is definitely louder--but it's also a bigger body and lacks the many ergonomic and travel feature of the Journey. The Journey does very well for what it is and the price point is very good.

The statements regarding intonation concern me. I hope those on the MacNichol road trip will each check this out also and chime in here or at the other forum regarding intonation.

One question to be asked would be how does the intonation compare with other small guitars in this size range? I had heard concerns with Cargo intonation in the past--but it seemed to depend on the guitar and the player. I know nothing about McPherson or Rainsong in this regard. Are they all dead on except the Journey? Or, are others also off a bit and if so, to what extent when compared?

Anyway, these are questions I'd love to have answered if road trip people remember to check. thanks.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:44 AM
dragonfly66 dragonfly66 is offline
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The Rainsong sounded the best in that comparison video and I thought the Journey came in second, which is a winner in my eyes considering all of the other features the Journey has. The McPherson looked to have the biggest body. I agree McPherson and Cargo sounded the same.

Unless your saddle is made specific for your guitar and set-up I don't know how intonation can be perfect on any mass produced guitar. You can assume if you set-up all of the guitars the same way that using a template of a saddle that intonates perfectly will work in the rest of the guitars, but how accurate can you be in setting up every guitar the same. If you take your nut slots deeper or change the height of the saddle or the relief in your neck you are changing the string length. Intonation is the last thing you do on a guitar setup and if using a template saddle, like every mass produced guitar, you cannot expect it to be perfect, maybe close. I installed a bone saddle I got from Bob a long time ago meant for a Seagull and I sanded it so it would fit in the OF-660 slot and it is dead on for intonation on all strings except for the high e, which is a little sharp. My action is between 6-6.5/64ths at the 12ths fret. Might be off the next time I take the neck off depending on how many turns I use.

Last edited by dragonfly66; 02-16-2015 at 07:02 PM.
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  #60  
Old 02-17-2015, 03:38 AM
Ronnie RedZone Ronnie RedZone is offline
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I've had several of these pass through my store, and they all sold very quickly.

I agree that the action on every Journey guitar we've had has been quite high, at least for my tastes. That really isn't unusual, as A) I like my action low, and B) almost every guitar we receive - from almost every manufacturer - also needs setup, including action adjustment. As a result, I or my in-house luthier routinely set up nearly every guitar we sell.

Though the Journey carbon fibers haven't hung around the store for long, I haven't noticed any intonation issues that would be outside the norm for any acoustic guitar, and I've played them enough to notice if there were a significant issue. We are expecting more OF660's late this week or early next. I'll make it a point to scrutinize the intonation. Neither have I noticed any inconsistencies with the frets, and I did specifically check for that. I'll continue to monitor for that on upcoming orders.

I also agree that the tone on these guitars is "dark", almost to the point of being muted. This is not perfect, especially for flesh fingerstyle (Flengerstyle? Fleshgerstyle?), but in my opinion, is far more pleasing than a guitar that is too bright, as many carbon fiber guitars seem to be, especially in the smaller body sizes. Arguably, in travel situations where presumably one would be staying in hotels, cruise ships, etc, the lesser volume levels may be a feature, not a flaw, as they say - although that's probably more of a "every cloud has a silver lining" kind of conclusion. For what it's worth, the OF660 has plenty of volume when played with a pick, and lots of small-body guitars speak softly when played fleshgerstyle®.

I have spoken with Rob a bit about some of these things, and he's told me that he has the ability to tweak the tone in future models. Apparently the goal was to start with a baseline that people found pleasing (darker vs bright/harsh), with plans to tweak the design based on customer feedback. Rob, please correct me if I'm not stating this correctly.

As some others have mentioned, these guitars are an incredible value. Most other CF guitars cost MUCH more. And also as mentioned previously, the travel aspects of this guitar are nothing short of revolutionary. The case design, while tight, is extremely practical and versatile.

I just returned from a trip to Cabo San Lucas. Since we had sold all our Journey OF660's, instead I took a full size acoustic in a nice gig bag. While I had no trouble getting the guitar on the plane, my guitar was nearly smashed by another passenger trying desperately to force her densely packed carry on suitcase into the space already occupied by said guitar. After witnessing her repeatedly smashing her overstuffed suitcase into my guitar's body and neck, I jumped up and convinced her she needed to find somewhere else to cram her carry on.

In April, I leave for Germany, Austria, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. This trip, I plan to take a Journey OF660, after I set it up to my liking.

FYI, I love and have traveled extensively (16 countries, maybe more) with my Voyage Air guitars. I really enjoy having a full size guitar when I travel. But the thing is, the Voyage Airs aren't truly carry on size. While they do fit in most overhead bins, technically they exceed the dimensions for carry ons. Due to their size, I have had to gate-check my Voyage Air a time or two (with no issues, fortunately), and they get to be quite a handful when also carrying on a suitcase. The Journey is just so much easier to travel with.
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