Camatillo Rosewood

Trevor B. · #1 01-23-2016, 02:48 PM

I was just reading an old AGF thread from 2010 about Camatillo Rosewood. This is an unfamiliar tonewood to me. In the old thread one of the posters suggested avoiding it because of it's thin, tinny sound. Another poster, clearly a luthier, disputed the aforementioned poster's claim by saying, You obviously haven't played the guitar I built with Camalitto Rosewood.
Here's the irony. I've been listening to the youtube video linked here for months without even realizing that the back and sides of the featured Charis No.160 are constructed of this tonewood. BTW - I absolutely love the tone of this guitar.

I'm interested in any views folks would be willing to share about this tonewood.

Trevor B. · #2 01-23-2016, 03:42 PM

No thoughts???

tbeltrans · #3 01-23-2016, 03:53 PM

The guitar sounds fine, but most do in this price class. I am not really into dissecting the subtleties of all these versions of rosewood, but I really think the music is beautiful.

Tony

dekutree64 · #4 01-23-2016, 04:10 PM

It reminds me very much of cocobolo. Smells similar, density is similar, both are oily. I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I could find a good set. Unfortunately the trees seem to be small, since the few I've seen have been flatsawn. I'd rather have a quartersawn 3 piece back.

As for the sound, I would assume it's also like cocobolo... not much contribution from the back unless you make it really thin, due to the high density. But great guitars can be made with non-live backs. My guess at the one that sounded tinny is that it was overbuilt in both top and back.

Trevor B. · #5 01-23-2016, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekutree64

It reminds me very much of cocobolo. Smells similar, density is similar, both are oily. I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I could find a good set. Unfortunately the trees seem to be small, since the few I've seen have been flatsawn. I'd rather have a quartersawn 3 piece back.

As for the sound, I would assume it's also like cocobolo... not much contribution from the back unless you make it really thin, due to the high density. But great guitars can be made with non-live backs. My guess at the one that sounded tinny is that it was overbuilt in both top and back.

Yes, camatillo rosewood looks like cocobolo from the pictures I've seen of it. However; I haven't seen any guitars made with it up here in my neck of the woods (southern Ontario). Clearly Bill Wise is an outstanding luthier but I'd like to hear some other examples of instruments made with this wood.

Blueser · #6 01-23-2016, 05:09 PM

That guitar is as close to sonic perfection as I've ever heard. What an incredible sounding instrument.

Bill Kraus · #7 01-23-2016, 05:23 PM

I'd never put to much stock in what any one poster say's about a wood, unless it's a veteran builder. I think it's important to get a consensus.

lightfoote · #8 01-23-2016, 06:02 PM

Ah Trevor, you've found my holy grail of guitars. I've been searching for Charis #160 for awhile. Even called Steve DeVries, whose playing it in this video, but it's not to be found. Keep in mind, this guitar does sound exquisite, but Steve is a PROFESSIONAL player who can make a mediocre guitar sound great. That being said, I did some research on Camatillo and I wouldn't hesitate to build with it. Most builders say it's very "glassy" , meaning I suppose it does tend to the treble side of tonal range. I always thought of pairing it with a Cedar top to mellow out the glassiness and you'd have an outstanding guitar. That's probably the one I'll build with Bill Wise in the very near future.

Trevor B. · #9 01-23-2016, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueser

That guitar is as close to sonic perfection as I've ever heard. What an incredible sounding instrument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightfoote

Ah Trevor, you've found my holy grail of guitars. I've been searching for Charis #160 for awhile. Even called Steve DeVries, whose playing it in this video, but it's not to be found. Keep in mind, this guitar does sound exquisite, but Steve is a PROFESSIONAL player who can make a mediocre guitar sound great. That being said, I did some research on Camatillo and I wouldn't hesitate to build with it. Most builders say it's very "glassy" , meaning I suppose it does tend to the treble side of tonal range. I always thought of pairing it with a Cedar top to mellow out the glassiness and you'd have an outstanding guitar. That's probably the one I'll build with Bill Wise in the very near future.

Hey Blueser and lightfoote,
Good to know that I'm not alone in my drooling appraisal of Charis #160. There's no doubt Steve DeVries is a very fine player and does a great job of bringing out this instrument's wonderful voice (and many others from the Acoustic Pro Musician youtube channel). That said, the voice still has to be there for an artist to speak with it. Since I have no personal experience with Camatillo all I have to go on is the sound of this guitar. I don't find the sound of Charis #160 particularly glassy but will concede that the bass is not big and boomy either. In fact, the guitar sounds very balanced to my ears as well as really resonant. This guitar may be the exception re: the glassy quality of camatillo. It would be great to hear some other examples of guitars with camarillo baks and sides. I'll keep looking.

mercy · #10 01-23-2016, 06:39 PM

Also called Mexican Kingwood

Trevor B. · #11 01-23-2016, 06:51 PM

Although not a guitar, strictly speaking, here's camatillo (Mexican Kingwood) with Italian spruce from Dream Guitars.

dekutree64 · #12 01-23-2016, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercy

Also called Mexican Kingwood

Actually no. I thought so too for a long time, but then found out that kingwood is Dalbergia cearensis, and camatillo is Dalbergia congestiflora.

redir · #13 01-23-2016, 07:18 PM

I hear lot of distortion in that recording. My guess is that the guy playing it can make any guitar sound good. It's a nice guitar for sure. Camatillo is a true rosewood.

jseth · #14 01-23-2016, 10:00 PM

Lovely sounding guitar, but really, who knows how it sounds from a sound clip on the internet? I'd guess it would sound MUCH better, in person...

Never heard of Camatillo rosewood before, but I've heard of Charis guitars, and they are stellar instruments; doesn't surprise me that this one is special...

Trevor B. · #15 01-23-2016, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jseth

Lovely sounding guitar, but really, who knows how it sounds from a sound clip on the internet? I'd guess it would sound MUCH better, in person...

Never heard of Camatillo rosewood before, but I've heard of Charis guitars, and they are stellar instruments; doesn't surprise me that this one is special...

I agree on both counts. To your first point I'd just add that sound clips on the internet are still relative. So while I'm also convinced the Charis #160 would sound much better in person it still sounds better than most other clips of boutique luthier built guitars on the internet. I hope this makes sense.

I too had never heard of Camatillo rosewood until I came across the video link in my op. Like all things to do with acoustic guitars I find learning about new woods and materials really exciting. And this new rosewood looks really good as well.