Short-scale, why only Cargo?

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by wilstev

The popularity of the Cargo and GS Mini only prove there is a demand for decent sounding travel guitars not short scale guitars. In fact these two guitars have received less than favorable reviews by those that tried to force them in to different roles.

There are people, such as myself (and I know I am not the only one), who are successfully using the Cargo as their primary guitar. I don't want to start another of those Cargo/us vs them threads, but for some of us, it is "right", for others, it isn't, just as with any other guitar. I have not particularly cared for other "travel" guitars I have played except the Soloette, though that would not work as a primary "go to" guitar for me. I have not tried any of the really nice travel guitars (such as the Brunner or the VoyageAir) people have mentioned in these forums, so my experience with travel guitars is quite limited. I don't personally think of the Cargo as specifically a travel guitar, but rather as the most comfortable instrument I have yet played. It has been my primary guitar for more than a year and I am still happy with it. It wouldn't matter to me if nobody else liked the Cargo, it just works for me.

Tony

[scooter74]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

<snip...snip>Just one man's opinions....

Correct, and evidently it's not an opinion shared by enough guitar players at this time.

BTW, the only reason I had to add my opinion is that I feel some here have tried to confuse the issue. Fact is the two short scale guitars with the biggest following here as of today are the Cargo and GS Mini and these two guitars are in fact nothing more than travel guitars that happen to have short scales. If these guitars worked better with a long scale I'm sure they would be just as, if not more popular with guys looking for a good travel guitar. I for one would rather have my travel guitar with the same scale as my other guitars.


As far as sub-short scale guitars (24" or less) with wider nut spacing that were not designed as travel guitars go, there are plenty out there from boutique builders but as noted above at this point in time there does not seem to be enough demand for any of the bigger players to tool up for it.

[scooter74]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

There are people, such as myself (and I know I am not the only one), who are successfully using the Cargo as their primary guitar. I don't want to start another of those Cargo/us vs them threads, but for some of us, it is "right", for others, it isn't, just as with any other guitar. I have not particularly cared for other "travel" guitars I have played except the Soloette, though that would not work as a primary "go to" guitar for me. I have not tried any of the really nice travel guitars (such as the Brunner or the VoyageAir) people have mentioned in these forums, so my experience with travel guitars is quite limited. I don't personally think of the Cargo as specifically a travel guitar, but rather as the most comfortable instrument I have yet played. It has been my primary guitar for more than a year and I am still happy with it. It wouldn't matter to me if nobody else liked the Cargo, it just works for me.

Tony

Tony, it's great that you were able to make this travel guitar work for you as your main guitar, and even better that you at least admit that it is a travel guitar. (There is a local musician that performs at restaurants with a Baby Taylor that he set up with a Fishman Prefix) It's also good that you find it comfortable. At 6' plus I prefer a larger guitar but my Cargo has served me well in it's intended role.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by wilstev

Correct, and evidently it's not an opinion shared by enough guitar players at this time.

Could you please share with us your hard research/data on this?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by wilstev

BTW, the only reason I had to add my opinion is that I feel some here have tried to confuse the issue. Fact is the two short scale guitars with the biggest following here as of today are the Cargo and GS Mini and these two guitars are in fact nothing more than travel guitars that happen to have short scales. If these guitars worked better with a long scale I'm sure they would be just as, if not more popular with guys looking for a good travel guitar. I for one would rather have my travel guitar with the same scale as my other guitars.

"Tried to confuse the issue"?

Can you please elaborate on this?

"...are in fact nothing more than travel guitars that happen to have short scales."

...or could they perhaps be short-scale guitars, that happen to have small bodies, and therefore function well as travel instruments due people finding value in *both* design elements?


"If these guitars worked better with a long scale I'm sure they would be just as, if not more popular with guys looking for a good travel guitar."


This is purely your opinion...I'm not sure how or why that you're "sure" of this.

I am not so sure, of course. I think folks dig the short-scale side of things, once they experience it (perhaps without fully knowing this, or understanding why). That's my opinion.

Also, there are a number of manufactured "parlor guitars" out there with full-scale length. I don't see people fawning over these too much here...


"I for one would rather have my travel guitar with the same scale as my other guitars. "


Well, thank you for mentioning this as your preference, rather than stating it as the end-all be-all factual conclusion to this discussion.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by wilstev

Tony, it's great that you were able to make this travel guitar work for you as your main guitar, and even better that you at least admit that it is a travel guitar. (There is a local musician that performs at restaurants with a Baby Taylor that he set up with a Fishman Prefix) It's also good that you find it comfortable. At 6' plus I prefer a larger guitar but my Cargo has served me well in it's intended role.

What works for one person may not necessarily be what works for another. It is great that there is such a variety of guitars available today - we have choices. My experience with the Cargo was a complete surprise to me. If I saw it in a catalog or an online web site, I would not have had much interest. But actually trying it before I bought it, I just knew. That is why I would be really reluctant to purchase a custom guitar from a builder - until I have actually played a guitar with the details I THINK would work for me, I won't really know. Clearly, not everybody has that problem and therefore there are those who know what they want ahead of time and can order a custom guitar. Prior to encountering the Cargo, I would never have thought such an instrument would be "right" for me.

I didn't like the Baby Taylor, the Tacoma Papoose, or the Martin Backpacker at all (though full size instruments from each of these makers is fine for me). Clearly, many people do like these particular travel guitars, which is again personal needs and taste. Because of my experience trying these instruments, I would not have been enthused about a really short scale (I like your term "sub-short scale", by the way) guitar. But for whatever reason (maybe with the 1 3/4" nut??), it sure works for me on the Cargo. I am about 5' 10" tall, so you definitely are taller than I am. That could be one reason why the Cargo doesn't work for you as a primary instrument, though I do think there is usually more to it than just one factor.

Tony

[Larry Pattis]

One detail in how I think about scale lengths is that "short-scale" incudes ANY scale that that allows for standard pitch. This includes guitars that I have experienced, all the way down to 22.75" scale.

Guitars like the Brunner Outdoor guitar (now offered in CF) with 21.5" scale, or Martin's "5" series, Tacoma Papoose, etc., all require tuning up from standard pitch. Those are not really even guitars, in my mind!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

One detail in how I think about scale lengths is that "short-scale" incudes ANY scale that that allows for standard pitch. This includes guitars that I have experienced, all the way down to 22.75" scale.

Guitars like the Brunner Outdoor guitar (now offered in CF) with 21.5" scale, or Martin's "5" series, Tacoma Papoose, etc., all require tuning up from standard pitch. Those are not really even guitars, in my mind!

Larry,

Thanks for that clarification. There is a lot I don't know about this stuff (funny, since my brother builds classical guitars).

Tony

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

Company that made those went out of business, no?

Yes, but I understand it went out of business for financial reasons other than not selling enough guitars. My impression is that they were selling very well.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by petelor

There are more short scale wood guitars on the market than I care to list here..

It would be great if you could name a few production units that have less than 24" scale length and nut width of 1-3/4".

[gitardude]

I did try capoing my 00-18V at the 2nd fret and retuning. Seems to work pretty well. Great suggestion. I still love the guitar, if only I could reduce extent to which my fingers need to stretch for some chords. This helps.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by Berf

The Mini-Maton has a 22.75" scale and comes either as a laminate (EML/6) or all-solid woods (EMS/6, EMD/6). They even do a 12-string version with the short scale. Pretty comfortable to play while lounging on the couch but the onboard electrics may not be your thing (and seem to add a bit of weight).

http://www.maton.com.au/acoustics/mi...on-series.html

Looks nice, but I can't find any measurement specs online. Do you know the nut width?

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by wilstev

The popularity of the Cargo and GS Mini only prove there is a demand for decent sounding travel guitars not short scale guitars. In fact these two guitars have received less than favorable reviews by those that tried to force them in to different roles.

If you include traveling from the refrigerator to the couch, I'd agree. Otherwise, not so much.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

There are people, such as myself (and I know I am not the only one), who are successfully using the Cargo as their primary guitar. I don't want to start another of those Cargo/us vs them threads, but for some of us, it is "right", for others, it isn't, just as with any other guitar. I have not particularly cared for other "travel" guitars I have played except the Soloette, though that would not work as a primary "go to" guitar for me. I have not tried any of the really nice travel guitars (such as the Brunner or the VoyageAir) people have mentioned in these forums, so my experience with travel guitars is quite limited. I don't personally think of the Cargo as specifically a travel guitar, but rather as the most comfortable instrument I have yet played. It has been my primary guitar for more than a year and I am still happy with it. It wouldn't matter to me if nobody else liked the Cargo, it just works for me.

Tony

A couple of years ago when I was studying with blues guy Kenny Sultan in Santa Barbara, I brought in my Cargo. He played it for a minutes and said, holy [whatever], this is a real guitar, I've got to get one.

[mercy]

Im glad you all enjoy your Cargo's but I dont travel so the carbon is a put off for me. Shop around and you can find a builder who will build a wood guitar for the same price as the Cargo sold for. As for sound, well that is a gamble for any 1 of guitar.

[gitardude]

Originally Posted by mercy

Im glad you all enjoy your Cargo's but I dont travel so the carbon is a put off for me. Shop around and you can find a builder who will build a wood guitar for the same price as the Cargo sold for. As for sound, well that is a gamble for any 1 of guitar.

Good luck on finding someone to build a guitar for $800. As for carbon, the Cargo has somehow come up with the right combination of ingredients and craft to come up with a real winner. Don't knock it until you've played one (if you haven't yet done so).