To Jazz from Classical

[k_russell]

OK, so I have my new jazz box. All of my guitar education has been with the classical guitar. For a number of reason, taking lessons at this time is not a viable option. My steel string experience includes strumming chords to accompany vocals, a little bluegrass, and some acoustic blues (all pretty much self taught or picked up from other players)

I have Micky Baker's jazz guitar book. I practice the lessons, record me playing them after I practice. I listen to the recording, fix what I don't like and repeat. I have been working with this book and using my classical guitar for about a year (before I bought the archtop).

My chord progressions sound pretty good. Playing the scales, runs, and arpeggios is another story. With a pick on the the archtop, I can hit the right pitch at the right time, but that's it. If I use my classical guitar and finger pick these exercises, they sound smooth, clear and I can control the accents. Actually, these exercises are pretty much entry level for the classical guitar.

My list of solutions are:
1. Find a teacher (not a current option)
2. Screw the archtop and use the the classical guitar for jazz (no way, I like the archtop)
3. Practice more and be patient. (Yeah, I have only been playing the new guitar for a few weeks)
4. Finger pick the steel string (and scratch up my finger nails so my sound on the classical guitar stinks).

I'm sure some of you have successfully transitioned from classical to jazz (and changed gear). Can you think of anything in particular that you did that helped?

[Bluemonk]

Immerse yourself in listening to jazz, and not just guitar.

[Archtop Guy]

OK, left hand, no problem.

Right hand? Alternate up and down strokes while swinging your scales! String skip while arpeggiating your chords! You Tube, online lessons (Matt Warnock). Play along with records for that swing feel. Keep yourself busy, you'll be fine.

[kevets]

Originally Posted by k_russell

OK, so I have my new jazz box. All of my guitar education has been with the classical guitar. For a number of reason, taking lessons at this time is not a viable option. My steel string experience includes strumming chords to accompany vocals, a little bluegrass, and some acoustic blues (all pretty much self taught or picked up from other players)

I have Micky Baker's jazz guitar book. I practice the lessons, record me playing them after I practice. I listen to the recording, fix what I don't like and repeat. I have been working with this book and using my classical guitar for about a year (before I bought the archtop).

My chord progressions sound pretty good. Playing the scales, runs, and arpeggios is another story. With a pick on the the archtop, I can hit the right pitch at the right time, but that's it. If I use my classical guitar and finger pick these exercises, they sound smooth, clear and I can control the accents. Actually, these exercises are pretty much entry level for the classical guitar.

My list of solutions are:
1. Find a teacher (not a current option)
2. Screw the archtop and use the the classical guitar for jazz (no way, I like the archtop)
3. Practice more and be patient. (Yeah, I have only been playing the new guitar for a few weeks)
4. Finger pick the steel string (and scratch up my finger nails so my sound on the classical guitar stinks).

I'm sure some of you have successfully transitioned from classical to jazz (and changed gear). Can you think of anything in particular that you did that helped?

I've been a classical player for 15 years. And like you, my steel string experience is new. I am taking a lesson every 4-6 weeks with a jazz instructor, looking at developing chord melodies.

I am curious which archtop you got? I have been gassing for an Ibanez AF151.

And I'm also curious why you're going with a pick? I have found my RH technique has given me a major leg up with jazz fingerpicking. I might at some point develop a hybrid picking approach, but no way am I giving up my RH fingers for just a pick!

Did you find (like me) that classical had you ill-prepared for Jazz? I was discouraged to learn how little music theory, and even chord building, I had learned over 15 years. My classical training always seemed to be working on tone and hitting the right notes at the right time with the right dynamics, and each one of those "rights" was pre-determined for me. I am finding great freedom in playing chord melody, and am trying to avoid treating it like classical. There are infinite ways to play a jazz standard musically. There was only one way to play Cavatina correctly, and I found that stifling.

But I'd go with your last option. Keep your nails a bit shorter, and the steel string isn't too murderous on your nails for nylon. Most guitarists would kill for your RH skills!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by k_russell

OK, so I have my new jazz box. All of my guitar education has been with the classical guitar...My chord progressions sound pretty good. Playing the scales, runs, and arpeggios is another story. With a pick on the the archtop, I can hit the right pitch at the right time, but that's it. If I use my classical guitar and finger pick these exercises, they sound smooth, clear and I can control the accents. Actually, these exercises are pretty much entry level for the classical guitar...Can you think of anything in particular that you did that helped?

If you're really looking for something out of the ordinary - as well as a new technical challenge - you might want to scout out some of the material from when archtops were the last word in the development of the pure acoustic guitar, roughly 1925-1940; FYI, many of the players of the day looked upon them as "serious" or "legitimate" instruments (I got into a major brouhaha with one of my college music professors over his pejorative use of the latter term), treating them as full and equal members of the orchestral string family (the term "orchestra guitar" was in fact often used to describe archtop guitars well into the 1960's, and the first-generation L-5 was originally conceived as a member of the mandolin orchestra rather than the stand-alone jazz instrument it would become) and either adapting material from the classical repertoire (as did Andres Segovia), or composing new works in a late-Romantic idiom. Although this "classical archtop" style is all but forgotten today except among hardcore archtop aficionados (and anyone who slogged through the first-edition Mel Bay books of the '50s/'60s) it represents a parallel - and unquestionably American - line of artistic development to the Spanish classical school, having its roots in the early 20th century stylings of William Foden and Vahdah Olcott-Bickford and imposing its own set of equally rigorous technical and interpretative demands on the player...

If your chops and reading skills are up to the task Mel Bay's Masters of the Plectrum Guitar contains many of the better-known works, in addition to which a number of performances are available on YouTube (search "archtop guitar" and/or Harry Volpe for starters). For the listener this long-lost style of music still retains its considerable emotional power and artistic merit, eight decades after its heyday; one can only wonder what might have been had the classical archtop guitar realized its full potential, progressed and developed to become the accepted style/instrument in serious music circles...

[mr. beaumont]

An adaptation from the business world.

Fast, good, easy.

Pick 2. Only 2.

Practice, man.

[Bikewer]

I'm sort of torn. I only recently (last couple of years) decided to get more seriously into fingerstyle jazz....Chord-melody stuff.

I have a little Ibanez semi-hollow set up with flatwound strings, and I also play a smaller classical with a similar neck-width.

I like 'em both... I really like the stuff that the various Brazilian guys do on the nylon-string, and also artists like Earl Klugh....

So in deciding to upgrade, I'm really torn between a snazzier jazz box like one of the nicer Ibanez artcore models...Or... One of the nicer nylon-string "crossovers" like the Godin.

I do suggest immersion.... I have my Pandora feed set up to play mostly jazz guitar of all types... From Gypsy Jazz to Grisman's "dawg" music to Joe Pass and Herb Ellis and everyone in between. (they do keep throwing in those pesky keyboard players but I GUESS they're OK in small doses)

[k_russell]

I bought a Guild A-150 Savoy. I saw ads sfor the Ibanez model but could not find one in a local shop.
Because one of my teachers transferred her skill of detecting the most minute flaw in a finger nail, I have taken on the flat pick challenge.
My aunt is a self taught jazz guitar player. When she learned that I wanted to learn, she adamantly advocated learning classical guitar first. Today after I have played classical guitar for many years, she says "be patient and practice". I'm not sure if classical training has prepared me for jazz, but I intend to find out.
Right now I find the change refreshing when not imposing. I practice Bach in the morning and study Wes Montgomery in the evening.