New guitar, buzzing frets

[ttylr245]

I just received a Yamaha NTX700C and find fret buzzing when pressing down at the 2nd and 3rd frets on the A and D strings. I am debating trying high tension strings to see if that fixes the problem but I feel I should be able to select and tension strings without this kind of problem. Any advice or similar experiences? Right now I am leaning towards returning the guitar but I do love the way this guitar looks and its size. I do wonder if I will ever be truly satisfied though.

Tom

[dosland]

Could be a humidity issue; depending on your merchant's return policy you might be able to let it settle at optimum humidity for a few days and see if that helps. There's probably also a truss rod, if it's a neck relief issue, but you'd think the merchant would have set it up properly before shipping. Good luck!

[Bax Burgess]

As stated, let it adjust for a few days to your humidity, and if still buzzing (a high fourth fret would be my initial guess), locate a local guitar shop to have the fret filed down and recrowned. Or, if the action can go a little higher while still being comfortable, shim the saddle a smidge higher.

[Ned Milburn]

Often, new guitars frets are not dressed. Hence, slight deviations in height from one fret to the next can cause frustrating and unwanted buzzing.

Also, consider that wood is hygroscopic. A fancy word to say that it absorbs and dispels moisture. With this, parts that are imbedded into wood can move slightly over time.

Also, consider that the guitar is comprised of wood joined by glue with different grain orientation of wood pieces at joints. Hence, wood because it shrinks when it dries can cause the joints to deform slightly.

Now here is the kicker. Most people who have a few years experience with guitars will understand that quite often there will be some higher frets on the fingerboard extension just past the neck/body joint. These frets, even if they were level when the guitar was new, can come out of alignment due to the movement of the shrinking wood.

So, with my clients, I regularly use house building as an analogy. A few years after a house is built, it is common for drywall cracks to appear. This is due to the shrinkage and twisting of wood after the house is built.

The good news is, after a few years everything will stabilize. The bad news is, to get the frets to their optimal playing alignment, a light but full fret dressing is commonly necessary.

In your case, you are not complaining about frets near the fingerboard extension, but it is highly likely that there is some unevenness in the fret alignment causing your troubles. Specifically, there is a good chance that the 4th fret is slightly higher than the 2nd and 3rd.

That said, a change of strings can sometimes help. It is more common for kinks in strings to give the illusion of misaligned frets in a steel string acoustic, but I'd recommend a change of strings before chucking out some money on a fret dressing just to be sure.

[ttylr245]

Thanks for the comments and advice. I did some research online about correct fret clearance for this guitar and did a few measurements. The neck is clearly bowed and not within the manufacturer's specs. I know tweaking the truss rod is no big deal to most of you in this forum and certainly just a standard adjustment for luthiers. But I do not think I should have to do all of this since the instrument is new and should have been checked prior to shipment. So it is in the mail back to the online dealer for a refund.

I have the highest respect for Yamaha as a guitar manufacturer and this experience in no way diminishes my high opinion of them. I have an old Yamaha FG-420 which weathers all humidity conditions and sounds better than when I bought it 25+ years ago.

Too bad it is so hard to find nylon guitars in the local music shops. I have been trying a Taylor 314ce-n which sounds much better than the thinner body Yamaha but is more than 3 times the cost. The Grand Auditorium size still feels a bit too big for my liking but I cannot dispute the sound is much bigger and nicer. Too nice for my meager talents probably.

Anyway the search goes on.

Thanks,
Tom

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by ttylr245

Thanks for the comments and advice. I did some research online about correct fret clearance for this guitar and did a few measurements. The neck is clearly bowed and not within the manufacturer's specs. I know tweaking the truss rod is no big deal to most of you in this forum and certainly just a standard adjustment for luthiers. But I do not think I should have to do all of this since the instrument is new and should have been checked prior to shipment. So it is in the mail back to the online dealer for a refund.

I have the highest respect for Yamaha as a guitar manufacturer and this experience in no way diminishes my high opinion of them. I have an old Yamaha FG-420 which weathers all humidity conditions and sounds better than when I bought it 25+ years ago.

Too bad it is so hard to find nylon guitars in the local music shops. I have been trying a Taylor 314ce-n which sounds much better than the thinner body Yamaha but is more than 3 times the cost. The Grand Auditorium size still feels a bit too big for my liking but I cannot dispute the sound is much bigger and nicer. Too nice for my meager talents probably.

Anyway the search goes on.

Thanks,
Tom

Manuel Rodriguez makes nice factory-hand-made instruments that are good value for the money. They had some fret-work issues in the mid to late 90's, but my former boss and myself were invited to their factory as fretwork advisors, so if all went well, they are on a better trajectory for clean fretwork nowadays.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Rodrigue...tars-Guitar.gc

BTW, classical guitars shouldn't need truss rods, and without being snobby, my personal opinion is that if a classical guitar has a truss rod, it is likely best to avoid purchase. Very few top quality classical guitars will have truss rods installed, and the high calibre classicals that do have them installed are the exception rather than the norm.

[happyscoob]

--have small store and repair shop. I recommend to new or used guitar owners to use high tension strings when starting with a new or different guitar. Most regular guitar players have different play with positioning , hands and fingers. If the dealer has set the neck somewhat close , frets are level, nut and bridge(saddle) are as should be you are ready to go. If possible should have a guitar instructor or friend who plays watch you play. Can tell you what you are doing , sometimes their is not a right way or wrong way for an individual. You should not be having buzzing problems and if you are not the cause ( such as lazy fingers, not all that bad with some individuals) or finger position with frets. Not all individuals can or want to play by the book and can still put out nice music. I would take back the guitar and expect my customers to bring it back . They bought it for them to enjoy and just maybe another brand or model would be better, does not mean , in most cases , that the guitar is at fault or that you should be looking at a better made guitar. When looking at brands try playing guitars made in different countries. Just maybe China is not making the best guitar, USA, Korea, Japan or Canada as you might find what you are looking for . Do not get frustrated and enjoy!

[eddieblz]

Originally Posted by ttylr245

Thanks for the comments and advice. I did some research online about correct fret clearance for this guitar and did a few measurements. The neck is clearly bowed and not within the manufacturer's specs. I know tweaking the truss rod is no big deal to most of you in this forum and certainly just a standard adjustment for luthiers. But I do not think I should have to do all of this since the instrument is new and should have been checked prior to shipment. So it is in the mail back to the online dealer for a refund.

I have the highest respect for Yamaha as a guitar manufacturer and this experience in no way diminishes my high opinion of them. I have an old Yamaha FG-420 which weathers all humidity conditions and sounds better than when I bought it 25+ years ago.

Too bad it is so hard to find nylon guitars in the local music shops. I have been trying a Taylor 314ce-n which sounds much better than the thinner body Yamaha but is more than 3 times the cost. The Grand Auditorium size still feels a bit too big for my liking but I cannot dispute the sound is much bigger and nicer. Too nice for my meager talents probably.

Anyway the search goes on.

Thanks,
Tom

They just don't make them like they used to. I know that sounds corny amongst these very intelgent posts.
My first guitar was a JC Penney's special, I know I'm dating myself with that one. It was a really cheap classical guitar, nylon strings, no truss rod, yet the action was always perfect on it the tone and pitch was always flawless, and it never buzzed. All my friends who had name brand guitars but loved playing it. I had a hard time getting it out of thier hands when we'ed get together. I had it for twenty years then It got broke in and argument with my wife.
From then on I got nothing but steel string acoustic and electric guitars but I always thought about that guitar. So a few years back a bought an Ibenez AEG series nylon classical guitar. It just isn't the same. I get occasional buzzes it it also and have to adjust it.

[ttylr245]

Originally Posted by

[url

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Rodriguez,Classical---Nylon-Guitars-Guitar.gc[/url]

BTW, classical guitars shouldn't need truss rods, and without being snobby, my personal opinion is that if a classical guitar has a truss rod, it is likely best to avoid purchase. Very few top quality classical guitars will have truss rods installed, and the high calibre classicals that do have them installed are the exception rather than the norm.

Interesting about the better classical guitars not needing truss rods. Does that mean the neck just does not move appreciably with age and/or humidity? I guess you are reduced to fret shaving, changing the nuts, or shimming the bridges for the "high caliber" classical guitars? I also begin to wonder if nylon stringed guitars are just more susceptible to buzzing due to their greater motion. I have heard that some flamenco style guitars incorporate a bit of buzz as part of their unique sound.

I will check out the Rodriguez guitars but doubt seriously that I will risk trying to buy another guitar without trying it first. I simply hate returning things I have bought and causing problems. All I really need is a nice acoustic/electric, preferably with a cutaway, that is easier on my fingers for barre chords on the lower frets. I use a Loudbox Mini for amplification when the mood strikes to make a little noise.

Thanks for your input.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by ttylr245

Does that mean the neck just does not move appreciably with age and/or humidity? I guess you are reduced to fret shaving, changing the nuts, or shimming the bridges for the "high caliber" classical guitars? I also begin to wonder if nylon stringed guitars are just more susceptible to buzzing due to their greater motion. I have heard that some flamenco style guitars incorporate a bit of buzz as part of their unique sound.

Yes, yes, no, yes.

Yes, classical necks are beefier than steel string acoustics, with slightly less than 1/2 the string tension. Flamenco necks, more often made from Spanish cedar rather than mahogany, can tend to bow more with age than classical necks more often built with mahogany.

Yes, fretwork, fingerboard planing... These are the main means to correct a gently growing bow in a classical or flamenco fingerboard.

No (but yes, too). Classical guitars with "concert" action are set up with 3.5mm-4.5mm action at the 12th fret (high E - Low E). Compare this to about 1.8mm-2.25mm for a standard steel string setup. A classical guitar set up well should be able to take a very heavy right hand without any distracting buzzing.

Yes. Flamenco guitarists have come to accept the buzz as part of their sound, and they often set up their guitars at about 2-2.5mm action high E and 2.5-3.5mm low E. A guitar with nylon strings strung this low cannot avoid buzzes, but there is a difference between a bad sounding fret-misalignment buzz and a low action buzz.

Originally Posted by ttylr245

Thanks for your input.

You're welcome!