Nick Drake

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

What you say probably is correct. I have no Idea. I never was a fan though I had a CD of his and of coarse I listened to it. Many years later I was looking at a Acoustic Letter You Tube video about the Guild M20. I recognized the sound as Nick Drake. Just my experience.

This is where I stand with it. I know we'll never really know for sure, but my ears tell me the M20 is delivering the sound Nick Drake has on the recording. All Mahagony guitars have a distinct sound if it wasn't an M20 he recorded with I feel certain it was a Mahagony top guitar of some sort.

[Osage]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Seems odd if no one recalls what he played on the records. While the Pink Moon sessions were unusually private, the first two records were typical productions of the time when a great many musicians in the same room at the same time recording.

Not everyone is a guitar nerd, but most brands are big enough on the headstock for someone to notice, and at least general size might have been remembered (dread vs. smaller body).

Yes, I realize, decades ago, drugs were ingested, lots of sessions, he wasn't a big deal in the business back then, etc.--but still....

Robert Kirby was a close friend of Nick's as well as the arranger on the first two albums. He was at the studio for all three. He had this to say on the subject a few years back: "I NEVER SAW NICK PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN A MARTIN D28 (or his classical Spanish) UNTIL DURING PINK MOON WHEN HE SOLD EVERYTHING AND GOT THE MARTIN 00018 WHICH BRIAN NOW HAS."


I do think it's funny that Nick Drake almost certainly never played the "Nick Drake" guitar.

[ocarolan]

The recording equipment available, and the techniques used way back when Nick recorded his music differ markedly from those currently in use, and probably have more to do with how he sounds on record than which guitar he did or didn't play.

And yes, the dead strings were obviously a huge part of what was going on - we all had dead strings in those days!

A bit of Googling will turn up several contemporaneous reports of the guitars Nick played as well as subsequent "discussion" - well worth seeking these references out if you haven't done so already.

Keith

[Osage]

the other pretty obvious thing is that Nick Drake sounds like Nick Drake regardless of what he's playing. We can all get caught up in tonewood and body size and brass vs. bronze strings and Sitka vs. Adi and everything else but when it comes down to it, a great player sounds great on whatever and a truly great and unique player sounds like themselves no matter what. I mean you can tell it's James Taylor from the first fraction of a second even if you've never heard the song and he's played a number of different guitars in his career, many pretty dissimilar from each other.

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by Osage

the other pretty obvious thing is that Nick Drake sounds like Nick Drake regardless of what he's playing. We can all get caught up in tonewood and body size and brass vs. bronze strings and Sitka vs. Adi and everything else but when it comes down to it, a great player sounds great on whatever and a truly great and unique player sounds like themselves no matter what. I mean you can tell it's James Taylor from the first fraction of a second even if you've never heard the song and he's played a number of different guitars in his career, many pretty dissimilar from each other.

This reminds me of the article I read where Keith Urban had picked up a few new guitars, and wanting to hear what they sounded like to a listener, he asked Vince Gill to play them while he stood back and listened...

After Vince had done so, he asked Keith what he thought of the guitars...

Keith's answer was "They all sound like Vince Gill..."

[Mr Fingers]

Though nobody knows definitively, I think the simplest possibility is the most likely: that Nick used the guitars he was known to own and favor, including a D28and a Levin (dreadnoughts) and later a 00018. Since most people claim that the Guild was a prop, and since the recordings sound like a dread with dull strings, not a mahogany top, my best guess is that he used the large bodied guitars. While none of us could compose those tunes, and few of us would come up with those tunings and accompaniments, the overall tone doesn't seem all that mysterious to me and I think could be readily replicated with the Martin D28 or Levin, and, yes, a good 00018.

[la palma C]

I guess the question we should all be asking is -- why do small body hog-top guitars sound just like a D28 with dead strings??



Just kidding of course. I specifically bought my 00-15M to get closer to a Nick Drake sort of tone. My own experience, like some others in this thread have reported, is that style of guitar (smallish, all mahogany) seems to do a noteworthy job of approximating Nick's sound, regardless of how Nick originally achieved it.

I know it is a fool's errand to continually chase after a certain artist's tone, but it sure is satisfying to get in the ballpark and then see what you can do with the inspiration that ensues.

I fully accept that Nick may have never even played the M20, and I'm equally accepting of the notion that his tone is just equal parts dread with dead strings, and the magic in his own fingers.

At the end of the day though, putting a 15 series into some crazy BEBEBE tuning and running through From the Morning or Time of No Reply feels pretty dang authentic.

[Archsas]

I actually don't think an M20 matches Nick's guitar sound very well. For some reason, a lot of people think his sound was darker than it actually is; on some songs, his guitar definitely sounds very dark and kind of dead (Harvest Breed, From the Morning, One of these Things First, etc.), but that could have easily been his Yamaha classical. Most of his songs actually have a very bright, sparkly quality in the treble that mahogany tops, at least in my experience, don't quite replicate. I have a lot of experience playing a GAD M20, and it doesn't sound super close to that most of Nick's records, especially in the high end. Dreads can get much closer, to my ears. And like a few other people have pointed out, recording techniques and dead strings can influence sound a lot.

Because it's kind of my job to do historical research and I think answering questions like this is fun, I've done way more research into Nick's guitar history than is probably healthy. I figured here would be a good enough place for a summary; hopefully some of you find it interesting and not pedantic. If anyone else is curious, the best single resource is probably Remembered for a While, the essay and photo collection that came out a few years ago; it has every picture of Nick with a guitar, receipts, and testimony from many of his friends and acquaintances. The main guitars Nick is known to have owned are a Yamaha classical, a Levin Dreadnought, and a Martin 000-28. Some people remember him playing a D-28 as well, and while it's possible, it's also possible that they could be misremembering his Levin as a Martin, so it's hard to say whether he actually owned one or not. Segments of his father's journal mention three guitars: two "good ordinary" ones (which I assume are the Yamaha and Dread), and an electric guitar. The ordinary guitars were smashed and then burned (IIRC, the electric was smashed eventually as well). Subsequently, Nick bought the 000-28, which has a 1972 serial number.

The Guild was definitely a prop, and it's entire history has been accounted for. It was sent to the UK by Guild for Eric Clapton as a gift for a potential endorsement deal. Clapton left the guitar at the photographer's apartment, and he took it to his studio to be used as a prop. In 1973, a radio DJ helped Nick Laird-Clowes (later of Dream Academy) get in touch with the photographer, and he bought the guitar, which he's owned since, and has used on many of his records. "Life in a Northern Town" was written on it. A few people, including Richard Thompson do seem to remember Nick playing an M20, but that could easily be a trick of memory, because one of the most famous photos of Nick features him holding an M20. As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone associates the Guild M20 with Nick is because of that picture, and because we know that guitar wasn't his, there's no reason to think Nick ever owned an M20.

As for what he recorded with, it was definitely just the Yamaha and whatever Dread he had, except for the 1974 recordings which were probably done with the 000-28. Based on my guessing, the Dread was used for most songs, and the songs that lack the Dread's high end were recorded with the Yamaha. There wasn't really anything special about his gear, Nick sounded like Nick because it was his playing. And the dead strings didn't hurt.

[Epiphone100]

Originally Posted by Archsas

I actually don't think an M20 matches Nick's guitar sound very well. For some reason, a lot of people think his sound was darker than it actually is; on some songs, his guitar definitely sounds very dark and kind of dead (Harvest Breed, From the Morning, One of these Things First, etc.), but that could have easily been his Yamaha classical. Most of his songs actually have a very bright, sparkly quality in the treble that mahogany tops, at least in my experience, don't quite replicate. I have a lot of experience playing a GAD M20, and it doesn't sound super close to that most of Nick's records, especially in the high end. Dreads can get much closer, to my ears. And like a few other people have pointed out, recording techniques and dead strings can influence sound a lot.

Because it's kind of my job to do historical research and I think answering questions like this is fun, I've done way more research into Nick's guitar history than is probably healthy. I figured here would be a good enough place for a summary; hopefully some of you find it interesting and not pedantic. If anyone else is curious, the best single resource is probably Remembered for a While, the essay and photo collection that came out a few years ago; it has every picture of Nick with a guitar, receipts, and testimony from many of his friends and acquaintances. The main guitars Nick is known to have owned are a Yamaha classical, a Levin Dreadnought, and a Martin 000-28. Some people remember him playing a D-28 as well, and while it's possible, it's also possible that they could be misremembering his Levin as a Martin, so it's hard to say whether he actually owned one or not. sements of his father's journal mention three guitars: two "good ordinary" ones (which I assume are the Yamaha and Dread), and an electric guitar. The ordinary guitars were smashed and then burned (IIRC, the electric was smashed eventually as well). Subsequently, Nick bought the 000-28, which has a 1972 serial number.

The Guild was definitely a prop, and it's entire history has been accounted for. It was sent to the UK by Guild for Eric Clapton as a gift for a potential endorsement deal. Clapton left the guitar at the photographer's apartment, and he took it to his studio to be used as a prop. In 1973, a radio DJ helped Nick Laird-Clowes (later of Dream Academy) get in touch with the photographer, and he bought the guitar, which he's owned since, and has used on many of his records. "Life in a Northern Town" was written on it. A few people, including Richard Thompson do seem to remember Nick playing an M20, but that could easily be a trick of memory, because one of the most famous photos of Nick features him holding an M20. As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone associates the Guild M20 with Nick is because of that picture, and because we know that guitar wasn't his, there's no reason to think Nick ever owned an M20.

As for what he recorded with, it was definitely just the Yamaha and whatever Dread he had, except for the 1974 recordings which were probably done with the 000-28. Based on my guessing, the Dread was used for most songs, and the songs that lack the Dread's high end were recorded with the Yamaha. There wasn't really anything special about his gear, Nick sounded like Nick because it was his playing. And the dead strings didn't hurt.

Interesting stuff. Seems to wrap it up really then.

Who smashed the guitars ? Was it Nick ??

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by Archsas

Because it's kind of my job to do historical research and I think answering questions like this is fun, I've done way more research into Nick's guitar history than is probably healthy. I figured here would be a good enough place for a summary; hopefully some of you find it interesting and not pedantic.

Wow. Thanks for your informative post. In my life I often live in fear of the epithet "pedantic" which has taken on quite a negative cast. That attitude, that answering questions by seeking to accumulate more knowledge is fun, is welcome.

[Archsas]

Originally Posted by Epiphone100

Who smashed the guitars ? Was it Nick ??

Yes. During a particularly bad period, he seems to have smashed them out of frustration with lack of drive and writers block. After getting a new guitar (which was probably the 000-28), he took them out to a trash pile to be burned.

[Mr. Jelly]

Why is this guy entering my life from several different angles lately? I guess I should get that CD of his out and listen to it again. The one with just him and a guitar.

[Marley]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Why is this guy entering my life from several different angles lately? I guess I should get that CD of his out and listen to it again. The one with just him and a guitar.

I've loved him for a long time. There's something about his voice, his guitar, his songwriting and recording that is simply super special.

I also happen to love a lot of the Syd Barrett acoustic songs that he recorded. Nothing like Nick but at the same time somewhat in the same vein. I find Syd's acoustic songwriting to also be pretty darn great.

[curbucci]

John Peel Session:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPYk...pLKRbNzOZmfGXT