PUTW #54 Dual Element SBT with MiSi Battery-free Endpin Preamp

[SpruceTop]

Anyone have experience with the Pickup The World PUTW #54 Dual Element SBT? This can be ordered from the company with a MiSi Battery-free Endpin Preamp for a total price of $270.

From the PUTW website: This pickup is our flagship soundboard pickup for steel string guitars. Comprised of a pair of Model #27's pickups, the installation is greatly simplified and the tone is very natural with a slight emphasis in the bass & treble registers. The two elements are placed on either side of the bridgeplate so that one is next to the bass X brace and the other next to the treble. There is no guess work involved in the positioning and the result is very feedback resistant due to the stiffness of the mounting locations. The tone is improved across the board from our single element pickups. This is especially noticeable on lighter / more boutique instruments that can tend to have exaggerated midrange emphasis with other soundboard pickups. The tone is clear and solid with more pronounced detail than our single model #27s and midrange overloads are eliminated. This pickup is passive and a preamp should be used.

Thanks for any information on this system!

PUTW #54 Dual Element SBT shown with standard passive endpin-jack:

[sdelsolray]

I've used a PUTW #54 for well over a decade in my main gigging guitar, along with a condenser mic. For context, I play solo fingerstyle, flesh and nail, no vocals, in a variety of styles/subgenres. I've not used it with the Mi-Si endpin preamp. I've always used it with a Pendulum SPS-1 and Pendulum preamp module. As such, the #54's passive signal is handled and turned active close to the source (which I believe is mandatory for this pickup).

It's a film-based piezo, not a ceramic based piezo like the K&K. To my ears, the #54 is more linear and less exaggerated than the K&K, both sonically (e.g., frequency and amplitude response) and in terms of reactive behaviors (e.g., dynamics, sustain, transient response).

All that being said, it is still a SBT pickup, with the same general shortcomings SBTs pickups tend to have. As mentined, I supplement it with a condenser mic for live performance, which improves the sonics and behaviors quite a bit. Running it through a high quality signal chain adds to the improvements.

With all the various pickups and signal chains that have come along (and sometimes disappeared) over the years, I have not been persuaded to replace the PUTW #54 or my signal chain with anything else.

[Doug Young]

Yep, you can find some samples on my pickup page. (I have not tried the mi-si preamp) The #54 sounds awesome in stereo, tho that may be impractical for most live settings. Agree with sdelsolrey that it is more linear than the K&K. Can sound very good, but needs a good preamp as close as possible to the pickup, so the mi-si sound like a good idea. One thing to watch for: I had some issues with the tape coming loose back when I used these - you could get little bubbles, or edges that weren't sticking and it would sound fine at low volumes, then act up at higher levels. So make sure it's attached evenly. It remains an interesting pickup for the right application, and I think the #54 is the best configuration.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

I've used a PUTW #54 for well over a decade in my main gigging guitar, along with a condenser mic. For context, I play solo fingerstyle, flesh and nail, no vocals, in a variety of styles/subgenres. I've not used it with the Mi-Si endpin preamp. I've always used it with a Pendulum SPS-1 and Pendulum preamp module. As such, the #54's passive signal is handled and turned active close to the source (which I believe is mandatory for this pickup).

It's a film-based piezo, not a ceramic based piezo like the K&K. To my ears, the #54 is more linear and less exaggerated than the K&K, both sonically (e.g., frequency and amplitude response) and in terms of reactive behaviors (e.g., dynamics, sustain, transient response).

All that being said, it is still a SBT pickup, with the same general shortcomings SBTs pickups tend to have. As mentined, I supplement it with a condenser mic for live performance, which improves the sonics and behaviors quite a bit. Running it through a high quality signal chain adds to the improvements.

With all the various pickups and signal chains that have come along (and sometimes disappeared) over the years, I have not been persuaded to replace the PUTW #54 or my signal chain with anything else.

Thanks for relating your experience with the PUTW #54. I highly value your input and always read your comments wherever they appear on AGF!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yep, you can find some samples on my pickup page. (I have not tried the mi-si preamp) The #54 sounds awesome in stereo, tho that may be impractical for most live settings. Agree with sdelsolrey that it is more linear than the K&K. Can sound very good, but needs a good preamp as close as possible to the pickup, so the mi-si sound like a good idea. One thing to watch for: I had some issues with the tape coming loose back when I used these - you could get little bubbles, or edges that weren't sticking and it would sound fine at low volumes, then act up at higher levels. So make sure it's attached evenly. It remains an interesting pickup for the right application, and I think the #54 is the best configuration.

Thanks Doug. Basically, I'm looking for a system for my new Martin D Jr that I bought without the optional Fishman Sonitone system. Being a lower-cost but decent sounding guitar for its size, I'm looking for a pickup/preamp system to install in it. I have my new Trance Amulet Phantom M that I could put in it but that seems like too costly a system to tie-up in this guitar. The K&K Mini would be good too but I don't want to use superglue. Some systems I'm considering but have no experience with are:

B-Band*A1.2N Acoustic Guitar Endpin Preamp with 1470 AST SBT -- This is a fairly low-cost system that seems attractive in its simplicity and some players like its tone. $99.60 on sale at Musician's Friend.

PUTW #54 Dual Element SBT with MiSi Battery-free Endpin Preamp -- With two sensors at opposite sides of the bridgeplate, and a MiSi preamp, this looks like a very nice system BUT its cost is about the same as a Trance Amulet M 9-volt system without tone and volume controls. $270 direct from PUTW.

McIntyre GF-30 Feather with endpin/strap-jack -- Low cost system with no onboard preamp but I can run its output into the 10MOhm input of my Fishman Aura Spectrum DI. $112 from Blue Star Music.

Dazzo Sound Design Twin Bundle Dazzo Pickup Set for Guitar -- Frankly, I have trouble understanding the system options available on this website! I'll have to email or call Teddy and see what bass to treble ratio he would recommend for a Martin D Jr. $204 shipped direct from Dazzo.

I'll give a listen to these systems on your pickup page but any insight into the relative tonal merits of these systems is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[M Hayden]

The stereo version really is nice. I have one installed in a 12-fret lightly built 00 and it sounds quite good. Sometimes it's been augmented by a standalone Highlander mic from an IP-2 setup that clips onto a back brace, and that adds a little extra air.

I run the output through a pair of high-quality mono preamps set with slightly different EQ and that fills out the sound.

On the whole, it's a reasonably good sounding pickup which works well with high-impedence-input preamps and installs with a very small footprint.

mh

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

...
I had some issues with the tape coming loose back when I used these - you could get little bubbles, or edges that weren't sticking and it would sound fine at low volumes, then act up at higher levels. So make sure it's attached evenly.
...

I had the same issue. IIRC, the #54 uses the same type of thin tape that is used for the Amulet.

I glued my #54 to the bridge plate. Works better that way, a bit like how the K&K works better glued in place instead of taped in place.

[alohachris]

Aloha Sprucetop,

PM'ed ya.

alohachris

[emmsone]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

.... The K&K Mini would be good too but I don't want to use superglue.

Its almost a separate topic in itself but its definitely relevant to this point.

In the Dazzo install video the transducers are glued in with epoxy instead of superglue and he says that you can clean this glue off the bridge plate with brake cleaner.
I don't know the answer myself, but I would be interested to know if this cleans the wood well enough for the Trance tape to stick in the future (assuming thats your reason for not going with superglue this time)
If epoxy is "cleanable" as it were, this would free you up to use the K&K's if thats a way you wanted to go as theres no reason you can't switch out the superglue for epoxy.

Dave

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Sprucetop,

PM'ed ya.

alohachris

Thanks, Chris! Will get back to you soon.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by emmsone

Its almost a separate topic in itself but its definitely relevant to this point.

In the Dazzo install video the transducers are glued in with epoxy instead of superglue and he says that you can clean this glue off the bridge plate with brake cleaner.
I don't know the answer myself, but I would be interested to know if this cleans the wood well enough for the Trance tape to stick in the future (assuming thats your reason for not going with superglue this time)
If epoxy is "cleanable" as it were, this would free you up to use the K&K's if thats a way you wanted to go as theres no reason you can't switch out the superglue for epoxy.

Dave

Thanks for your thoughts! I'm wondering what the brake cleaner does to the bridge-plate wood after a few relocations of the Dazzo transducers?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by emmsone

Its almost a separate topic in itself but its definitely relevant to this point.

In the Dazzo install video the transducers are glued in with epoxy instead of superglue and he says that you can clean this glue off the bridge plate with brake cleaner.
I don't know the answer myself, but I would be interested to know if this cleans the wood well enough for the Trance tape to stick in the future (assuming thats your reason for not going with superglue this time)
If epoxy is "cleanable" as it were, this would free you up to use the K&K's if thats a way you wanted to go as theres no reason you can't switch out the superglue for epoxy.

Dave

The way you attach affects the sound, so potentially, different glues sound a bit different; I'm not sure you can simply swap them with the same effect. According to Gary Hull at Trance, once superglue has been applied, the Trance will not adhere properly. My experience confirms that, but Maury, here on AGF, has reported success. Teddy at Dazzo also says he believes the acetone should be sufficient to allow an install. The only thing I can personally vouch for there is that we have installed Dazzo's in guitars that had K&Ks previously, with no issue, tho we soaked one guitar for probably an hour with acetone-soaked pads to take off the superglue residue.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thanks Doug. Basically, I'm looking for a system for my new Martin D Jr that I bought without the optional Fishman Sonitone system. Being a lower-cost but decent sounding guitar for its size, I'm looking for a pickup/preamp system to install in it. I have my new Trance Amulet Phantom M that I could put in it but that seems like too costly a system to tie-up in this guitar. The K&K Mini would be good too but I don't want to use superglue. Some systems I'm considering but have no experience with are:

B-Band*A1.2N Acoustic Guitar Endpin Preamp with 1470 AST SBT -- This is a fairly low-cost system that seems attractive in its simplicity and some players like its tone. $99.60 on sale at Musician's Friend.

PUTW #54 Dual Element SBT with MiSi Battery-free Endpin Preamp -- With two sensors at opposite sides of the bridgeplate, and a MiSi preamp, this looks like a very nice system BUT its cost is about the same as a Trance Amulet M 9-volt system without tone and volume controls. $270 direct from PUTW.

McIntyre GF-30 Feather with endpin/strap-jack -- Low cost system with no onboard preamp but I can run its output into the 10MOhm input of my Fishman Aura Spectrum DI. $112 from Blue Star Music.

Dazzo Sound Design Twin Bundle Dazzo Pickup Set for Guitar -- Frankly, I have trouble understanding the system options available on this website! I'll have to email or call Teddy and see what bass to treble ratio he would recommend for a Martin D Jr. $204 shipped direct from Dazzo.

I'll give a listen to these systems on your pickup page but any insight into the relative tonal merits of these systems is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

All of these can sound good, I think, it comes down to taste, and with SBTs there's an element of chance about how it matches your guitar. I've had an issue with every McIntyre I've tried that there's a low level hum, but other than that, it's a good-sounding pickup. Al Petteway gets a good sound with his, and he apparently doesn't have the hum problem. With the Dazzo's it comes down to bigger numbers=more bass. It's hard to know for sure what you want until you try. I think Teddy is recommending the 70s as the sweet spot. I have those in a Martin OM, and I think it sounds excellent. The Dazzos and the PUTW, especially have a somewhat flatter, wider frequency response than something like the K&K. But every pickup has a certain characteristic sound, and it's hard to predict which will complement your guitar and your taste.

Depending on what you want to do with this guitar, you might consider the benefit of using the same system as you already have in other guitars - it makes it easier to switch between guitars. Or, alternately, you could argue it's a good way to explore different options :-)

[Br1ck]

I have Dazzos in five guitars. Teddy did the installation in all of them. I play through a Red Eye and need no EQ. They sound pretty good right into a board too.

[martingitdave]

Revisiting Ken's thread. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this PUTW and MiSi combo since last year?