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  #91  
Old 06-27-2016, 09:43 AM
jfq722 jfq722 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Mac View Post
I simply do a better job when I know the song. I have always hated music stands, didn't even use one when I played in the pit for musicals (I memorized the score). I do see the value of ipads for lyrics, but only for off the wall requests of songs I know musically but haven't played in a while or never really internalized the words to. So, it's sitting there but is mostly unused.
Well that's another way for me to say it: how it 'looks' aside, its all I can do to play and sing. If I had to add reading to the mix it would be a bad scene ;(
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  #92  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:33 AM
MusicJohn MusicJohn is offline
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Smile using sheet music or ipad music

All I can say is that I am 65 and happy to be still playing. My repertoire is from the 50's through the 90's, and I have about 200 songs in my 'book'. Yeah, I would love to be able to not have the music in front of me, but people don't really care...Honestly, they don't!

As long as you provide them with the entertainment that they are seeking, and the song sounds like it should, then everyone is happy. I use to play in a Rock/Wedding band that had sheet music for everything....The problem was that the sheet music does not tell you the nuances that made that song what it was....THE BIG SECRET: YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW THE SONG SOUNDS! YOU HAVE TO FEEL THE INFLECTIONS, THE STRUM PATTERNS, THE SOUND.

Sheet music doesn't give you that......listening and hearing and feeling the song gives you that......

It does not really matter whether you read it or not. most of the time, I read portions of it, and Yes it might be a crutch.....but I rarely stare at the music. I look at the audience and smile and share the song with them..


....And that is my two cents!...MJ
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  #93  
Old 07-03-2016, 11:21 PM
Mischief Mischief is offline
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Default Performing with a music stand?

I hear both sides.
For the record, man I wish I didn't need a tablet with lyrics and chords on it. I agree that it would be better if I could do a great gig without. Okay if be happy with a great gig either way. Lol.

I'm working on it but at my age I don't think it will happen.
Having said that here's my take.

Since I use one I have payed particular attention to who else uses them. What I see is that many pros do. Not just classical orchestras. I see it in places like the Grand Ole Opera and many big concerts. Pretty much the only musicians not apparently using them are the front persons. I'm seeing the majority of session and backing bands all using notes extensively. As in glued to the notes.
Many of the front persons apear to not use them but many have prompters and IEM cues.

Speaking of which it was brought up about plays and live actors. Many have prompters and in ear cues too.

Seems the only people expected to be able to perform exclusively without sheets etc. are all us regular folk.

A few other points. As I am still green even though I'm older I asked my Dad. My Dad still gigs (he's gigged since he was 12 in bars back in the day when nobody cared about such things) He rarely had to use notes before and now does. I asked him his thoughts and he told me this. He said he can put more emotion into his songs using lyric/chord sheets then without. He went on to say anyone who thinks you can't has never heard someone who knows how to read a good book or poem. You can't say those people can't have emotion just because they are reading. In fact because they are reading they can free up emotion by not having to think about what's coming next.

Now I think if you can perform without and it's so intuitive that you don't need to even think about it and it's still emotionally connecting for you then that is awesome. In fact that's where I'd like to get to. But for those that can't I think it's fine to use them.

Does the audience care? Most probably don't care. Some would but I don't think it would be a deal breaker for them.
More then anything I think; because the illusion of not needing them that many pros are able to pull off, whilst actually using them means there is an expectation there when people watch a performance.

Btw I used to play 1st strings in city symphony we didn't just use the music sheet because the complexity of an orchestra it was also because we were working as a unit under our conductor and in my mind to do that and have the music feel alive and breathing not just mechanical you need to have your mind free to express emotion and take in the conductor. For many it would be too much to ask to do this and remember all the parts.

It could be the same for small gigs and the average Joe. Just because he could possibly do it without sheet music does not automatically make that the better option. I think you have to weigh that up against the quality of the performance, of you had your eyes closed which would sound better and more connected? Then with eyes open if the stand was invisible which performance for that individual is more engaging? Then one could decide if it's better to not have the stand there.
Anyway that's what my thinking.
Props to anyone that managed to read my whole post.

Last edited by Mischief; 07-03-2016 at 11:32 PM.
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  #94  
Old 07-04-2016, 12:52 AM
jseth jseth is offline
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Well, Mischief, i DID read the entire reply of yours... there's a LOT crammed in there!

The reason you see so many pros on stage with stands is BECAUSE they are backing someone else, and whoever the producer is, is doing everything he can to limit any mistakes or deviations from the program. If the same band is backing up a number of artists on a given night, it only makes sense for them to have a few roadmaps on hand!

If I were a PLAYER (not a singer/songwriter/guitarist), I'd have no qualms about using a music stand... although I don't use one in my solo gigging, I have used one when playing jazz tunes out of the Real Book for a gig...

I do think it looks amateurish for someone who is basically a folk/pop singer/guitarist to use a music stand and read charts for a gig... I don't believe it is possible to "fully connect" with anything with your head buried in a sheet of notation... I'm not speaking of having to breathe life into a Brahms composition, I'm talking about doing covers or originals with one voice and one guitar.

I fully appreciate folks who "have" to have the lyric and music in front of them; I was at that stag at one time, too, but I didn't do it on stage. To my way of thinking, if I haven't really internalized the piece, I shouldn't be doing it on stage... funny, if I make a mistake on a song that I REALLY know well, it doesn't bother me much... the audience rarely notices that stuff (like your music stand).

There will always be a faction of the audience that DOES notice that stuff; while I don't play for them, I do play for ME... and I know when I've done a great job on a song, and I know when I have made an error. I just feel that playing the song without external assistance is part of being a pro...

I don't see many folks who can play through their sheet music and actually touch someone, not in my line of work.

I think the whole iPad craze is worse than the music stand issue! Good grief! Looking at the otherworldly glow of the screen reflected on the performer's face... yikes!

All this stuff is just my opinion, and we all have those. If it works for you, then go ahead with it...

One other thing? S T R E T C H I N G ourselves is a really good way to strengthen aspects in which we are weaker... by making myself learn the songs and really connect with them, it actually gets easier to remember more of them!

I work off of about 300 tunes in my list... 50 or so are mine and the others range from Duke Ellington to Steely Dan to Stevie Wonder to the Band to Willie Dixon to Lyle Lovett to... well, you get the idea. I find that when I drop a line or forget a change, it is far more from NOT playing out as much as I like to be playing out...

At 65, I am thrilled to remember so many terrific songs from all the areas of my life...

play on................................................ .......>
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Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

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  #95  
Old 07-04-2016, 05:03 AM
Mischief Mischief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Well, Mischief, i DID read the entire reply of yours... there's a LOT crammed in there!

The reason you see so many pros on stage with stands is BECAUSE they are backing someone else, and whoever the producer is, is doing everything he can to limit any mistakes or deviations from the program. If the same band is backing up a number of artists on a given night, it only makes sense for them to have a few roadmaps on hand!

If I were a PLAYER (not a singer/songwriter/guitarist), I'd have no qualms about using a music stand... although I don't use one in my solo gigging, I have used one when playing jazz tunes out of the Real Book for a gig...

I do think it looks amateurish for someone who is basically a folk/pop singer/guitarist to use a music stand and read charts for a gig... I don't believe it is possible to "fully connect" with anything with your head buried in a sheet of notation... I'm not speaking of having to breathe life into a Brahms composition, I'm talking about doing covers or originals with one voice and one guitar.

I fully appreciate folks who "have" to have the lyric and music in front of them; I was at that stag at one time, too, but I didn't do it on stage. To my way of thinking, if I haven't really internalized the piece, I shouldn't be doing it on stage... funny, if I make a mistake on a song that I REALLY know well, it doesn't bother me much... the audience rarely notices that stuff (like your music stand).

There will always be a faction of the audience that DOES notice that stuff; while I don't play for them, I do play for ME... and I know when I've done a great job on a song, and I know when I have made an error. I just feel that playing the song without external assistance is part of being a pro...

I don't see many folks who can play through their sheet music and actually touch someone, not in my line of work.

I think the whole iPad craze is worse than the music stand issue! Good grief! Looking at the otherworldly glow of the screen reflected on the performer's face... yikes!

All this stuff is just my opinion, and we all have those. If it works for you, then go ahead with it...

One other thing? S T R E T C H I N G ourselves is a really good way to strengthen aspects in which we are weaker... by making myself learn the songs and really connect with them, it actually gets easier to remember more of them!

I work off of about 300 tunes in my list... 50 or so are mine and the others range from Duke Ellington to Steely Dan to Stevie Wonder to the Band to Willie Dixon to Lyle Lovett to... well, you get the idea. I find that when I drop a line or forget a change, it is far more from NOT playing out as much as I like to be playing out...

At 65, I am thrilled to remember so many terrific songs from all the areas of my life...

play on................................................ .......>


Jseth,
I hear exactly what you are saying.
As a user I do also think it looks more amateurish to me too. Although I believe any performer or aspiring performer is more critical then most laypersons.

I will say that my observation of backing bands are not just house bands I'm also talking of touring bands of solo artists. These are well seasoned musicians that have played each of those songs for that performer many 100's of times. Sometimes that are the dedicated band for many years and these ones still use their sheet music as one would in an orchestra.

But the front person does look better if he does not appear to be using them. Point is they often are anyway. Those that don't need to are indeed impressive to me. Including yourself (sincerely, since I can't convey my tone I truly mean that)

On the other side I will say when I have notes in front of me I admit it ends up being a crutch to the point I don't extend myself as much as I should. So I'm working on that.

For me I'd love it if I could have prompts, only I knew I was using and learned to use them sparingly or only as a back up. Maybe technology will allow this for me one day. I too would like to not have any extras between myself and the audience. But without my tablet that would mean I could not perform yet and I'm busting inside to share my love for the songs I do
with others.

I'm trying to work hard on providing the best I can at the time but if I wait until I'm as good as you are I'll be too old to play so I'm giving what I can and trying to get better. But if one always need notes I think that should not stop them from playing and I don't think they should feel bad whatsoever.
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