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#1
12-06-2012, 10:19 PM
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Specific Intermediate Lessons - am I off base?
I need your input folks. Please read the following set of criteria I've provided to two local instructors and let me know your thoughts...
Both instructors said, sure no problem, we'll get you "campfire good"...I can play many chords, play some fun fingerstyle, and believe I'm close to campfire good, but want to add some style, strum patterns, jazz up my playing a little... Twice in the last two weeks I've arrived at lessons only to be shown scales, notes on strings, theory...I truly can appreciate what you folks understand, know, and teach so I'm asking straight up...is my set of criteria wrong? I'll add more input after I hear from you guys...Thanks! Sent to instructors prior to meeting and starting our first lesson: I'm interested in getting back into lessons. I'd like to give you a little back ground then, and idea on what I would like to do going forward. I’m looking for guitar instruction with criteria listed below. I may be way off base with my list but am open and flexible. · 50 year old guy, been playing acoustic guitar for about three years. Took a year of fingerstyle lessons. · I do not know notes, scales, modes…know what they are but never practiced much. Not sure I want to do this going forward either. I read tab and chords. · I want to learn some new songs: folk, blues, rock,?...I’m open. I don't have music other than stuff printed off the web sites (chords/tab) · I want to learn to strum better and add some style..melody lines or ?...I want to spice up my playing and I'm not against playing fingerstyle again but not 100%. · Basically, I want to get better, will practice, but need someone to give me something to work on and help me advance. · Again, I may be off base asking to get better without putting in the time to do it 100% correct, I can take the truth… My goal is to be Campfire Good! Hope to hear from you. 
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#2
12-06-2012, 10:37 PM
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Your goals are very vague, and perhaps the instructors have assessed that if you really want to get better, you need to understand a bit more about what it is you are playing...
Knowing the names of the notes is not theory... Based on your ad, as a teacher, I would have no idea how to help you. What did you learn in a year of "fingerstyle" lessons? Who is a good "strummer" and how does your strumming lack? What's preventing you from learning new songs on your own/ what are the gaps you have technique wise that are roadblocks to learning _____? How do you hope to be taught to create melody lines without being taught some musical knowledge? Because the alternative is basically "fish around until you find something." You can't teach intuition. Unless you can be more specific, you will continue to get "general practioners" who are essentially replying; "well...I'll take a bit of this guy's money and see if I can figure out what he wants."
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#3
12-06-2012, 11:54 PM
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I'm not a teacher but I know exactly what you mean because I used to want the same thing. Learning the open position scales did help a little, but only enough to make me realize that I just had to start watching and listening to other people play to see what they were doing.
For what you're after, I think a good route is just to start playing with other people. Sometimes it takes a little doing to meet them, but that's where you really learn to introduce those little fills and change up your strumming.
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#4
12-07-2012, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Bring in some songs you want to learn, if that's the primary goal for you right now. Ask him to show you exactly how it's done. If he's unwilling to do that, move on.
__________________
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major... Sergei Prokofiev
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#5
12-07-2012, 01:57 AM
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I agree with Bern, tell the instructor(s) what kind of music you like, and would like to be able to play. Some specific examples of songs you think might be within your grasp now (or soon), and maybe a few to aim for further down the line.
No need to be specific about techniques, because the necessary techniques will be clear from the songs, or the styles you're interested in. (When the teacher hears you play, they will know where your technique needs improving.) If you want to improvise ("spice up" your playing?), you may need more theory. At least a basic level. I disagree with Jeff on one point, btw: note names (and chord names) ARE theory, they're just the beginning of it. Theory doesn't have to be about scary abstract concepts; it's just labels for the sounds you are making, including - ultimately - complex sounds such as keys and entire compositions. But you don't have to dive in the deep end at the start  .For basic playing of other people's songs (or even for writing your own) you need little, if any. But for getting deeper and breaking things down (analysing in order to understand the bigger picture), some level of theory is essential.
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#6
12-07-2012, 08:44 AM
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good advice on having more specific goals, but I'll take a different tack.
Have you bought any DVD instructional sets? If you start with a variety of those, you might start to hone in on what you want. Here's some examples I found to be fun intermediate courses Stefan Grossman teaches country blues Homespun's keb mo' instruction Happy Traum passes on his lessons from Brownie McGhee Truefire's most popular course: slap, frail and thump Muriel Anderson teaches 50 right hand techniques at Truefire This sort of thing might be useful for you because she ranges over so many styles, you might find the style you want to pursue. I like Truefire a lot, and if I had enough money to buy lessons for six months, I'd probably join there instead (free lessons for awhile and then discounts thereafter, I believe). But that's me; buying 5 varied instructional courses off amazon for 110-125 dollars u.s. first might also be a way to narrow your focus first so you would know what you really want from an instructor.
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#7
12-07-2012, 09:06 AM
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As a teacher, I ask students from time to time for examples and especially videos or YouTube links (emailed to me ahead of after lessons for the next one) of songs they want to learn. If they don't provide them, then I'm limited as a teacher in what I can do... And honestly, in your case I'd ask for and expect some video/audio examples - not sheets you've downloaded from the internet and printed off. If I were you, I'd go in armed with what you want to learn, otherwise you cannot expect teachers to read your mind. If you are paying for lessons, then teachers will dispense what they know to be good for you, and applicable in a variety of styles and situations. If you brought me some samples/examples (and I would only want one or two), I might delay your lesson for a week or two (maybe a month if your examples are demanding) so I could learn them well enough to be able to properly teach them to you. And if you are a monkey-see-monkey-do learner, it's going to be different than if you are a TAB reader. Chord charts won't take you to the next level, and TAB is notoriously poor and often inaccurate for advanced pieces. Hope this helps...
__________________
Baby #1.1 Baby #1.2 Baby #02 Baby #03 Baby #04 Baby #05 Larry's songs... …Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
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#8
12-07-2012, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for your feedback guys...I really appreciate you pointing out what I should change, or make more clear.
I like your suggestions to pick the music I want to play and present to an instructor. I have found watching youtube stuff the past few months has directed me towards where I want to go. I'll continue this route and make my goals more concise.
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#9
12-07-2012, 09:14 AM
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#10
12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
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The goals you listed in your original post were the same that I took to my current instructor (four lessons into it now) and though he didn't get me going on theory he did start out with fingering exercises, ear training, etc. I have found that though it may delay a bit of immediate "success" it is going to accelerate me in the mid-term. Already my strumming and simple riffs are easier to play, I'm starting to figure (though poorly right now) songs out on my own, etc.
To learn a bunch of campfire songs and learn them beyond just the up and down basic strumming I'm watching youtube and specifically http://www.freewebs.com/groovymusicl...ngslessons.htm . I purchased all of his lessons in a pack and once you get past his odd (though I like it) personality he shows some good stuff.
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#11
12-08-2012, 09:15 AM
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#12
12-08-2012, 06:57 PM
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Both the student and the teacher have responsibility for what happens during the lesson time. It sounds like you are looking for guidance and don't know how to verbalize what you want, but the teacher is the teacher and should help you to clarify your bottom line goals and the little goals that get you there.
Scale work is useful if you want to add melody to your playing, but I think it's more advanced. If you want to play blues, start with the 12 bar blues, which your teacher can help you with. A lot of folk does involve fingerstyle playing. See if your teacher can recommend a book to work from, as this can add both structure and direction to your lessons and practice. Communicate with your teacher. If he starts showing you something like scales, and you don't understand why it's important, ask why it's important or how you can apply this in your playing. You can learn strumming patterns as applied to songs. Lessons solely focused on what the student wants to do produces little growth. You'll learn, but not like you could if you have a good teacher who will stretch you. You're paying for the expertise, knowledge and skill of your teacher. If the teacher doesn't know how to help you set small goals that get you to being a better strummer, etc., then you need a new teacher.
__________________
kats Martin 00-28 Cordoba C9 Yairi FY70CE KoAloha Tenor Ukulele KALA Tenor
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