Learning how to play up the neck

[cpeehler7]

Hey again everyone, I've been playing a lot of stuff recently that's just starting to move away from the cowboy chord position. I'm sick of being stranded, playing the same 10 chords over and over again and was wondering how you guys learned how to break away from the cowboy chords. I've been learning fingerstyle for the last 4 months, having a ton of fun doing it. The only thing is I feel like I'm limited in the amount of songs I can play since I don't know a whole lot of chords.

One of the songs that I recently learned that's sort of breaking out of the cowboy position is Simple Twist of Fate (Jonn Dalton cover) I'll toss the link down at the bottom of the post. It's a real fun song to play, I have no trouble playing the chords in the song, once I learn them it's not hard. I just don't really know where to start, so I figured why not ask all of you knowledgeable guitarists and find out how you started to move around the fretboard.

Thanks in advanced guys, I always get great responses here.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuGq1-_gbTs&feature=plcp

[ZekeM]

The first way I moved away from the cowboy chord is learning the E root barre chords, next the A root barres. Then you might wanna toss in some D shape triads. For lead work start with the major and minor pentatonic scales. That should keep you busy a while and will really get you moving all over. I hope that helps some

[Kerbie]

Boy, Zeke just nailed it... that's exactly what helped me. Learning bar chords enables you to move around and get some different voicings of the same chords. The E-type and A-type bar chords will certainly get you out of the first 3 frets.

Then I started learning major scales in movable patterns, then minor pentatonics, major pentatonics and minor scales. The list can continue, but that will get you started.

Good luck!

[BluesBelly]

Zeke and kerbie both nailed it. E and A shape barre chords or partial barres. You can take any first position chord and barre it up the neck. I play alot of blues and like to use E, A, and C7 as barre shapes. If you learn the major pentatonic scale the minor is the same but three 1/2 steps down, or the G major pentatonic scale is the same as the E minor pentatonic scale.
If you post the type of music you like to play we can suggest some books or websites that may help.

Blues

[Bluemonk]

If you start to see chords not as grips but as note collections, and to visualize where the notes are on the neck, it opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

[cpeehler7]

Originally Posted by BluesBelly

Zeke and kerbie both nailed it. E and A shape barre chords or partial barres. You can take any first position chord and barre it up the neck. I play alot of blues and like to use E, A, and C7 as barre shapes. If you learn the major pentatonic scale the minor is the same but three 1/2 steps down, or the G major pentatonic scale is the same as the E minor pentatonic scale.
If you post the type of music you like to play we can suggest some books or websites that may help.

Blues

I do know a little of that, I just never use it. I've played All my loving which is mostly a combination of C A and E chords just barred up the neck. I think I need to just start finding more songs that use them. About the pentatonic scales, I did look them up quite a while back but have since forgot them. I should probably look them up again and practice those. I think my main problem isn't being able to play the barre chords, it's just understanding the use for them.

[rick-slo]

Capo the fifth fret - that will get you up there.

[stanron]

This may not be exactly what you are asking for but in the hope that it helps


This is one approach. I don't want to put you off but although the notes in a

scale are fixed, not all songs use only the notes in the scale. Also these three

scale patterns are not the only way to finger scales. And, of course there are

other scales.


2 octave major scale starting on the 6th string

├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ 3 6 2 │ 7
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
1 4 │ │ 5 1
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 7 3 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
2 5 1 4 6 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

2 octave major scale starting on the 5th string
Change hand position on 3rd string.

├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 3 6 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ 1 4 │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 7 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ 2 5 1 3 6
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ 4 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 2 │ 7
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ 5 1
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

One and a bit more than a half major scale starting on the 4th string
Change hand position on 3rd string.

├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 3 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 1 4 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 2 5 7 3
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ 1 4
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ 6 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ 2 5
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

OR

An alternatived method is to use the CAGED system. Here are the five basic open

chords. Learn licks, bits of scales or riffs around each of these and move them

to the relevant position on the neck for what is being played. Let your ears be

your guide as to which notes sound good or not.

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
│ │ │ │ 0 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 0 │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
0 0 │ │ │ 0
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ 0 0 0 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ 0 │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
0 │ │ │ 0 0
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
│ │ │ 0 │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ 0 0 │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
│ │ │ │ │ │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
0 │ │ 0 │ 0
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
│ │ │ │ 0 │
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by cpeehler7

...I just don't really know where to start, so I figured why not ask all of you knowledgeable guitarists and find out how you started to move around the fretboard.

Hi cpeehler7...

You did start...you used some non-conventional non-cowboy chords in your YouTube video.

I teach guitar, and when I begin teaching chord inversions, inside chords, etc. it's a several month process just to establish the repeating fingerings, and voicings of just the major and minor chords.

It starts with knowing the names of notes on the entire fretboard, the major scales in both open and patterned positions, understanding how chords are constructed musically, and learning/knowing/understanding how to construct/build chords for the same chord several places on the fingerboard.

After that it's a lot simpler...

There are no shortcuts, though you can memorize fingerings without knowing the names of notes in the chords. That is really the long-cut not a short-cut.

The aha parts of knowing and understanding how chords are constructed and being able to apply them in several keys rapidly and spontaneously in various places on the neck takes much longer if you just rote-memorize fingering patterns.

[WmRob]

Not much to add; I just wanted to say good job on the song. Nice voice, good guitar work and timing.

[cpeehler7]

Thanks for the great responses. I have quite a bit of practice to do obviously! I think you guys figured out what I was trying to say right on, I'm pretty much stuck in a rut. I have the ability to do more than I know at this point, and I'd really like to start learning more about the guitar. I'm going to try to take some music theory classes next semester, that should be fun since I've never taken any theory.

WmRob, sorry if I wasn't clear enough! That wasn't me in the video haha. That's Jonn Dalton, the guy I learned the song from. I will say I got the guitar part down almost as well as him, sadly I do not have his voice. He's a great performer, I sent him a message on YouTube a while back, he's a pretty nice guy. That song and Don't Think Twice are two songs I recently learned after I saw his videos and that's kind of been what has gotten me to decide to start learning a whole bunch of new material again. I was just kind of getting stuck learning new fingerpicking patterns and started getting bored with them.

Well now I have plenty of new material to practice, thanks a bunch guys. I'll probably let you know how things are going in a day or two. Maybe I'll think of a few other questions.

Christian

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by cpeehler7

...I have the ability to do more than I know at this point, and I'd really like to start learning more about the guitar. I'm going to try to take some music theory classes next semester, that should be fun since I've never taken any theory.

Hi Christian...
Do you have any piano background?

Music Theory is best learned on keyboards and then transferred to other instruments. I share that as one who had 9 years of keys, and 11 years of classical trumpet, and 7 years of classically oriented choirs. I've also had over 47 years of guitar, but I can still think in keyboard and transfer it to other musical situations as needed.

My major in college was music education, and my minor theory (17 hours before the college reviewed my transcripts and told me I could not major and minor in the same field).

My degree is in elementary and secondary vocal and instrumental music education.

If you want to really understand theory, then I suggest taking a basic music theory college class in a junior college or local college, and then deciding if you have accumulated enough skills to apply it to guitar.

If you have never had piano/keys, then I suggest you take a semester of beginner piano as well. Theory makes so much more sense that way.

Hope this helps...

[cpeehler7]

Thanks for that suggestion, no I have never played Piano. I'll check the course catalog at my university. I was trying to get into Music Theory for Non-Majors. I think that would be an easy class just to see if I like it. I've been recently starting to think I should just start to take music courses. I think I would rather make less money and teach music than get an office job making a lot of money, but be unhappy. Getting a job doing what I love to do probably wouldn't be a bad idea, but I have quite a lot to learn. Glad I'm only a Sophomore still.

I've never taken formal lessons, just self-taught and YouTube lessons. I wish I could go back and tell my high school self to take band and music class...

[stanron]

I contest the idea that music theory is best learned from studying the keyboard. Larry learned it that way. Larry teaches it that way. Other ways work. Feel free.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by stanron

I contest the idea that music theory is best learned from studying the keyboard. Larry learned it that way. Larry teaches it that way. Other ways work. Feel free.

You are welcome to disagree, Stanron.

It's still largely taught universally on keyboards, and from that standpoint.

I didn't mean to imply you couldn't learn music theory on a saxophone, but you will likely find chord structure, construction, and chord progressions harder that way.

Larry didn't suggest it because he happened to learn it that way.