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[unimogbert]

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[mstuartev]

As a Driver Safety Instructor (that's right, I'm teaching your teenage children to drive safely and NOT kill themselves or get in a bad crash in the first 2 years of driving as they do - statistically - in spectacular numbers), I will say that 99.9% of problems on the road are a result of: impatience, self-fish driving, speeding, distracted driving, and negative attitude. (and statistically, mature drivers - NOT teens - are engaged in more texting/using cell phones in the car and getting in crashes).

I'm normal person so I can see how it can be annoying when a driver does something stupid or tailgates or (perhaps temporarily) drives slower than they should... but when your driving is clouded by anger or frustration, you WILL be involved in a crash.

Encountering a motorist that is NOT doing what YOU think they should be doing is an opportunity to take a breath and be forgiving. And if you rear end them, the law will determine that YOU were not driving/following in a safe manner.

And remember: statistically, PARENTS are the #1 influence on new teen drivers (followed by friends, police and then driver ed teachers. Influence can be a positive or negative thing). When you drive recklessly, don't use directionals correctly, speed unnecessarily, tailgate, curse at other drivers, and more... your kids are taking detailed mental notes, and they will drive like that. I can tell after drive #1 or #2 what kind of driver their parents are. The problem is if they employ those approaches to driving, they are 5 -10 times more likely to be in a crash and kill themselves or others.

So, c'mon on... take a chill pill and be a better role model.

[Bikewer]

From a legal standpoint, it does not matter if the vehicle in front of you is "in your way" or driving too slowly or whatever.
You must maintain a safe following distance, period.

2 useful metrics one might apply..... First, the old standard one car-length for every 10 miles an hour of speed. Not too difficult, but many people have trouble estimating distance.

The other is the "2-second rule". When the car ahead of you passes a given object, it should take you two seconds to get to the same object.
That's two good solid seconds... "one thousand one, one thousand two"...

Try it sometime.

[Bucc5207]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

From a legal standpoint, it does not matter if the vehicle in front of you is "in your way" or driving too slowly or whatever.
You must maintain a safe following distance, period.

2 useful metrics one might apply..... First, the old standard one car-length for every 10 miles an hour of speed. Not too difficult, but many people have trouble estimating distance.

The other is the "2-second rule". When the car ahead of you passes a given object, it should take you two seconds to get to the same object.
That's two good solid seconds... "one thousand one, one thousand two"...

Try it sometime.

My experience trying this in traffic is thus: 1) Leave a six-length/two-second space in front. 2) Another driver pulls in to fill the space you opened. Traffic abhors a vacuum. 3) Slow down to regain your 'safe' interval. 4) Go to 1) above. Note that step 3) carries the risk of inducing road rage in those behind you. It simply is not possible to drive at the speed of traffic and maintain such a large interval. The only way to achieve anything like this in practice is to maintain a few MPH below the speed of traffic (in the far right-hand lane, of course). Better yet, stay off the freeway when it's crowded.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Unfortunately there are many tailgaters who think everyone is in their way--almost as if they are offended that other people are on the road. That's the way I felt about the guy described in my opening post.

There is no question that some drivers do think that anybody driving slower than them is "In their way" and that have absolutely no consideration for anybody else on the road and are actively aggressive about it by tailgating (the driver you are talking about) .

And no question that every driver has their own personal comfort level in regards to speed and they can be different.

BUT I think the (driver "duff beer" is talking about) is in reality the other side of the exact same coin you are talking about.

The driver that has absolutely no consideration for anybody else on the road, is driving the speed they see as "the reasonable speed" have passive aggressively determined "no one should be driving any faster than ME" and are actively creating a situation likely to encourage tailgating, because they will not pull over no matter how many cars are stacked up behind them.

In reality both those drivers are needlessly creating and subjecting others to a dangerous situation. Thankfully such drivers actually are the exception

[mstuartev]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

From a legal standpoint, it does not matter if the vehicle in front of you is "in your way" or driving too slowly or whatever.
You must maintain a safe following distance, period.

2 useful metrics one might apply..... First, the old standard one car-length for every 10 miles an hour of speed. Not too difficult, but many people have trouble estimating distance.

The other is the "2-second rule". When the car ahead of you passes a given object, it should take you two seconds to get to the same object.
That's two good solid seconds... "one thousand one, one thousand two"...

Try it sometime.

New Driver Safety instruction guidelines have been updated regarding this approach.
The car length per 10 MPH is no longer used. What constitutes a car length is too confusing. Imagine putting 5.5 Smart Car lengths between you and a car traveling 55 MPH ahead of you. Too small a gap.

A Timed gap is better and increases correctly as speed increases.
Recommended gap is no 4 seconds and add 1 second per condition when it exists (e.g. when following a large semi truck in the rain: 4 + 1 + 1)

Once again, I come at this from the perspective of teaching young drivers, but mature drivers (many of whom have forgotten what a red light or an 8-sided red sign signifies) should use this as well.

We can CONTROL what is in front of us. We can't control what is behind, but we can monitor the rear view.

[Bucc5207]

Originally Posted by mstuartev

New Driver Safety instruction guidelines have been updated regarding this approach.
The car length per 10 MPH is no longer used. What constitutes a car length is too confusing. Imagine putting 5.5 Smart Car lengths between you and a car traveling 55 MPH ahead of you. Too small a gap.

A Timed gap is better and increases correctly as speed increases.
Recommended gap is no 4 seconds and add 1 second per condition when it exists (e.g. when following a large semi truck in the rain: 4 + 1 + 1)

Once again, I come at this from the perspective of teaching young drivers, but mature drivers (many of whom have forgotten what a red light or an 8-sided red sign signifies) should use this as well.

We can CONTROL what is in front of us. We can't control what is behind, but we can monitor the rear view.

Four seconds! That's huge.

At 60 mph, you travel 352 feet in four seconds. Converting to car lengths at 15-20 feet per car length (pretty big cars), that's about 20 car lengths. A semi with a 53' trailer is something like 70' long, so you're talking about five semis' following distance at 60 mph, minimum.

Even at 35 mph (a pretty normal speed limit on city arterials), four seconds is over 200 feet, or more than ten lengths - something like half a block. Good luck leaving that big a gap on a city street!

Four seconds might make sense on a long stretch of almost empty highway, but in even the slightest traffic, forget it. The only way you can maintain that great a distance with other vehicles present is to drive slower than the speed of traffic. That makes you an obstacle that everyone else wants to get around. That is not safe driving.

And no, you cannot control what's in front of you, or behind you. You cannot control any other driver. To try is asking for trouble. You can only control your vehicle.

[unimogbert]

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[220volt]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

It's pretty simple: stay in the right lane except when passing (or when traffic is backed up in all lanes). I can't believe some states are now passing laws to tell people this thing that should be common sense.
If you're on a road with a single lane and you look in the mirror and see a line of cars behind you, find a place to safely pull out of the way and let them go.

1+ this. This is a "silent" law everywhere in Europe and most of the world and it is mostly respected. Not sure why here in the states there are people who will flip you or honk at you when you pass them on a two way road where passing is permitted (broken yellow line). It happens to me all the time. I think people are just clueless that passing is allowed.

[mstuartev]

Originally Posted by Bucc5207

Four seconds! That's huge.

At 60 mph, you travel 352 feet in four seconds. Converting to car lengths at 15-20 feet per car length (pretty big cars), that's about 20 car lengths. A semi with a 53' trailer is something like 70' long, so you're talking about five semis' following distance at 60 mph, minimum.

Even at 35 mph (a pretty normal speed limit on city arterials), four seconds is over 200 feet, or more than ten lengths - something like half a block. Good luck leaving that big a gap on a city street!

Four seconds might make sense on a long stretch of almost empty highway, but in even the slightest traffic, forget it. The only way you can maintain that great a distance with other vehicles present is to drive slower than the speed of traffic. That makes you an obstacle that everyone else wants to get around. That is not safe driving.

And no, you cannot control what's in front of you, or behind you. You cannot control any other driver. To try is asking for trouble. You can only control your vehicle.

4 seconds is the standard following gap taught in driver safety classrooms now. At 60 MPH, under ideal weather conditions, good visibility with vg tires and brakes and a road that does not need repairs, your total stopping distance (reaction time and stopping distance) will be approx. 250 feet. Assuming the weather is NOT always ideal and drivers are distracted or not 100% paying attention or fatigued or worse, one could easily add 100+ feet onto that TSD. The point is, not everyone is a professional driver (truck driver) and safety should be the highest concern. In Sweden, they determinded that lowering the overall speed would save lives, and it did. The average urban speed limit is now 30KPH (18 MPH). the # of accidents hasn't gone down, but the # of deaths and injuries (esp. amongst peds and bikers) has. Be concerned with safety.

As a culture we need to take more time, be in less of a hurry.

[duff beer]

A 4-second gap is both unrealistic and unnecessary in most cases for a competent driver.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by duff beer

A 4-second gap is both unrealistic and unnecessary in most cases for a competent driver.

I agree that a 4 second gap is unnecessary for a competent driver, but I personally feel that about half the people on the road aren't competent drivers.

[Bucc5207]

Originally Posted by mstuartev

4 seconds is the standard following gap taught in driver safety classrooms now. At 60 MPH, under ideal weather conditions, good visibility with vg tires and brakes and a road that does not need repairs, your total stopping distance (reaction time and stopping distance) will be approx. 250 feet. Assuming the weather is NOT always ideal and drivers are distracted or not 100% paying attention or fatigued or worse, one could easily add 100+ feet onto that TSD. The point is, not everyone is a professional driver (truck driver) and safety should be the highest concern. In Sweden, they determinded that lowering the overall speed would save lives, and it did. The average urban speed limit is now 30KPH (18 MPH). the # of accidents hasn't gone down, but the # of deaths and injuries (esp. amongst peds and bikers) has. Be concerned with safety.

As a culture we need to take more time, be in less of a hurry.

I don't dispute that four seconds is what studies say is safe, or that that is what is taught. I gladly take your word for it. I will even grant you that as a culture, we might benefit from giving ourselves and others hundreds of feet between vehicles.

My point is that we don't have the luxury of that kind of space when driving in the US in most circumstances. I'm sure we would all love to drive in safety and comfort at the center of our own personal acre of empty asphalt, but other drivers simply won't give it to us. The harder you try to open up space ahead of you, the more likely it becomes that another driver will duck in there and cut your gap in half. Drivers who try to create space for themselves, by continually backing away from vehicles ahead, obstruct and disrupt the flow and thereby decrease everyone's safety.

Maybe someday vehicles will be automated to force minimum spacing at all times. Meanwhile, in the real world, it's safest to drive at or near the prevailing speed. If you are not comfortable, or competent, or alert enough to drive with everyone else and accept the spacing that results, you don't belong on the road.

[Twelvefret]

A few months back a fellow was blowing his horn at the little old lady driver in front of his car. He was sporting one of those "co-exist" bumper stickers.

I feel your driving habits should be consistent with your advertising .