Madagascar Rosewood Tone.

[wezzywest]

Hi. I am looking for opinions on the tone and sound of Madagascar Rosewood on small bodied guitars, say size 00.How does it compare to EIR, as I have heard that it sits between EIR and Mahogany? Also, what soundboard would you pair it with out of Sitka and Adirondack? Any information and opinion welcome as there may well be a custom build in the pipeline.
Thanks.

[Von Beerhofen]

All my Madi guitars have a brilliant sparkly sound and very good sustain throughout the fingerboard. Noteseperation is very good too. My 2 Martin OM's don't sound comparable, one is Adirondack topped and the other is Suisse moonspruce. Suisse and Italian high altitude spruce have been a great hit recently and practically all builders came up with their version of Martin's CS-OM-13, or vice versa.

Ofcourse build techniques and bracing will influence the sound, with authentics in the top of Martin's line up and several cheaper options down the line (which now are no longer available). Personally I prefer the GE bracing on my CS-OM-13 which besides the Suisse top gives the guitar a very loud voice for such a small guitar. Still, it handles well with forcefull strumming as well as great response when delicately finger picked.

It won't be easy nowadays to find good Madagascar Rosewood though, but there are still a few hidden gems available if you can afford them. Don't go by my own personal experience but go and play them for yourself, it's better to have choices then to buy the most convenient one closest to you. There can be big differences as with any guitar and EIR is a great tonewood too as is Mahogany.

VBH

[westman]

woo, wezzy - thats a alota stuff I aint heard.
Depends on the design of the top first & foremost.
Mad r/w is a rosewood - specific gravity .75, .93 with a a uniform medium-fine texture.
thats a wide range of density which contributes to the ‘flavour’ this b/s timber s capable of creating - given the guitars design.

[wezzywest]

Thanks for the replies, I realise that there will be variables depending on the build etc. I suppose I am asking for a general comparison, all things being equal. My possible guitar will be 00 size and fingerpicked, maybe some non plectrum strumming although I have other guitars for that. Cheers.

[mercy]

You wont get agreement on this forum likely but it is reputed to be much like Braz and not as dark as EI. I would put it with European for a fingerstyle. Your builder will have his sound so just imangine that with the above generalities. And yes I have had an Madi/Euro.

[wezzywest]

Originally Posted by mercy

You wont get agreement on this forum likely but it is reputed to be much like Braz and not as dark as EI. I would put it with European for a fingerstyle. Your builder will have his sound so just imangine that with the above generalities. And yes I have had an Madi/Euro.

Thanks for that.
Cheers.

[rmyAddison]

I have/had the following Martin Madagascar's:

Dread - "America's Guitar", Adirondack over Madagascar

000 - 000-42 MEC, Carpathian over Madagascar Clapton

OM - CS OM-28 Alpine over Madagascar

00 - CS 00-42 Adirondack over Madagascar

I mention the above only because I think actual ownership and daily playing perhaps gives a little more weight to an opinion rather than "I played one once at a GC for five minutes, so I know all about Madagascar".

Anyway, with a variety of different tops and obviously different sets of Madagascar going back to 2008, my thoughts....

I like Madagascar, especially like Brazilian the older "better" sets. The biggest thing to me is clarity, especially on the low end, it does not muddy like "some" EIR, especially on larger body instruments.

It has some of the bell like characteristics of Brazilian, although not as much, but again more than the EIR I have owned over the years. My OM in particular has a wonderful natural reverb, and a long decay with subtle swells you clearly hear.

Some EIR is wonderful, but I haven't bought an EIR guitar since my first "Madi". The negatives, and I can only speak about Martins, the prices have become stupid high, Martin was charging a $3500 Custom Shop upgrade (no longer available through the CS at all), and most of the good sets are gone, and that includes later Authentics.

A good Madagascar set, at a fair price, or a good used price, I think it's an excellent tone wood.........

[Yrksman]

The best comparison I can offer is that my two Wingert guitars are a Model D in Brazilian and Adirondack and a Model F in Madagascar and Adirondack.

You would be hard pushed to tell the difference.

[wezzywest]

Thanks again for the replies, both really useful and some wonderful guitars. The mark up by Martin CS is a real jump, my upgrade will be around £175 or $200 approx, which would seem worth it to me. I will be speaking to my potential builder on Monday to discuss the set I have found, fingers crossed he thinks it`s a good un. Thanks to both of you again.
Cheers.

[Basalt Beach]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

The biggest thing to me is clarity, especially on the low end, it does not muddy like "some" EIR, especially on larger body instruments.

My OM in particular has a wonderful natural reverb, and a long decay with subtle swells you clearly hear.

Spot on description.

We own two OM's from the same guitar maker, one is EIR/Germain Spruce and one is Madi/Italian Spruce. We also own an SJ from the same maker with Madi/Italian Spruce. The low end has incredible clarity on the both Madi backed guitars. I believe the low end growl which helps define both guitars is due to Madagascar. In addition, they both also have sparkly trebles.

All that said, I love the tone from EIR/German OM equally. IMO, it is simply different. My better half believes the Madi backed guitars have "mojo" and prefers them over the EIR/German. YMMV

As for top wood, our preference is for European spruces, which in general are closer in tone to Adirondack. If you are doing a custom, you should discuss your choice with your builder.

[wezzywest]

Originally Posted by Basalt Beach

Spot on description.

We own two OM's from the same guitar maker, one is EIR/Germain Spruce and one is Madi/Italian Spruce. We also own an SJ from the same maker with Madi/Italian Spruce. The low end has incredible clarity on the both Madi backed guitars. I believe the low end growl which helps define both guitars is due to Madagascar. In addition, they both also have sparkly trebles.

All that said, I love the tone from EIR/German OM equally. IMO, it is simply different. My better half believes the Madi backed guitars have "mojo" and prefers them over the EIR/German. YMMV

As for top wood, our preference is for European spruces, which in general are closer in tone to Adirondack. If you are doing a custom, you should discuss your choice with your builder.

Thank you, I will definitely discuss which sound board woods to use, hopefully the Adi mark up isn`t to great. Cheers.

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by wezzywest

Thank you, I will definitely discuss which sound board woods to use, hopefully the Adi mark up isn`t to great. Cheers.

FWIW on a dread/jumbo I would go Adirondack, OM or smaller I like Alpine/Engelmann/Carpathian, just my opinion.....

[Jim]

I see you live in the UK. If you ever want to travel with or sell your guitar to anyone outside of the UK you will need to be sure you have your CITES re-export certificate. Since you are considering having the guitar built for you, you will need to insist that the builder supply you with a certificate when you take ownership of the guitar otherwise you will not be able to travel outside the UK with it or eventually sell it outside the UK.

As has been mentioned, the quality of what legal Madagascar rosewood is still left in the hands of builders and suppliers is a bit challenged and getting worse all the time since it is illegal to import the wood. Adirondack can be a nice wood as well, but all of the best trees were logged a long time ago so what is left is a bit hit or miss so you may not get the highest quality Adirondack either. My suggestion would be to go to the building in person and sort through what they do have to ensure you get decent quality woods of these species.

[rgregg48]

[QUOTE=Yrksman;5386429]The best comparison I can offer is that my two Wingert guitars are a Model D in Brazilian and Adirondack and a Model F in Madagascar and Adirondack.

You would be hard pushed to tell the difference.[/QUO

Now you're just braggin!
(lol)

[brencat]

I think the best advice is to be sure of the builder you're considering. I once owned a Martin OM-28 Authentic, Adi/Madi, but sold it after only 6 mos...tone was too dry and pure, with nowhere near enough sustain, harmonics, and sizzle for my taste. I now have a Santa Cruz German/EIR OM that I love.

It's not fair for me to criticize Madi with an ownership sample of only one, though I have plenty more experience and no complaints about EIR. In smaller guitars, strong bass response is always priority #1 with me though, as I'm primarily a dread guy.

Builder #1, top wood #2, back and sides a distant 3rd...IMHO.