Heel stacks - does it matter?

[printer2]

Got this Etude La Patrie with case for $35. Maybe I'll get around to fixing it one day. Anybody know how to remove Gorilla Glue?





Just noticed it has a glued on one piece heel. Not really all that noticeable.

[Mr Fingers]

I started building from the Irving Sloane book where scarfed heads and stacked heels were the standard. It all comes down to the quality of the workmanship, in my experience. There are plenty of guitars with dubious grain alignment in their one-piece necks, where a stacked arrangement of sounder wood would seem better, structurally. I play/build electrics, too, and in that world the old standard Les Paul one-piece mahogany neck exerts such influence that there are flame wars whenever anyone dares suggest that a multi-piece arrangement could work as well or better!

[mercy]

I humorously disagree with Guitargeorge, all the wood in that Martin neck is wasted. I tried to play one of those once but the headstock wouldnt stay off the floor the neck was so heavy.

[DanR]

My Halcyon has a stacked heel. I understand why it had to be that way. Initially, I wasn't thrilled about it but now I actually enjoy the aesthetic of it as, I see it every time I play it. It is not a negative to me.

[murrmac123]

The solution which satisfies aesthetics, as well as engineering and ecological considerations, is to have a 3 piece, or 5 piece. or 7 piece, or 9 piece vertically laminated neck, which avoids the (totally understandable) aesthetic objections to the stacked heel.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by mercy

I humorously disagree with Guitargeorge, all the wood in that Martin neck is wasted. I tried to play one of those once but the headstock wouldnt stay off the floor the neck was so heavy.

Most of those are on Martin's HPL guitar bodies. The laminated neck is actually lighter than a solid mahogany one, but the bodies are light enough that the balance is thrown off.

My Carbon fiber guitars are the same, they feel really neck heavy, but it's really that the body is much lighter in comparison.

[Mr Fingers]

I'm sorry... I thought this thread was about Elton John's stage shoes.

[Cabarone]

Would somebody dumb this down for me and tell me what heel stacks and wings are? Aside from Kiss wearing apparel, that is...

[Proclaimer888]

So, this kinda goes with the thread. I just fixed a finger joint on my daughters baby Taylor. It was not a break fail but the joint simply became loose?? I could actually move the peghead around with the strings on. Took of the strings, wiggled the peghead and off it came, like a loose tooth. The joint had a few areas needing to be dressed up a bit. Folded fine sandpaper in half and used as if flossing my teeth...ouch. Used a toothpick to help get wood glue into the joints. My only problem was keeping tension on the joint after applying the joint. Finally decided to just hold tension with my hands and watched an episode of MASH. Left it overnight and seemed stable. Added a bit of superglue to a few areas where there were small gaps in the joints. Got some steel wool and attacked the joint the next day. Now, the joint looks like a Frankenstein look, and the steel wool took some of the finish off but its solid now! I actually prefer the feel of the area where I sanded....I also removed the nut and swiped the bottom with some sandpaper and action is now much better. So, to answer the question, no stacks do not bother me, it can be a more resourceful way to build a neck...I like the looks of a solid neck and if given the option and same price option, i would never choose a stacked heel over solid. I might, disagree with some that the joint is "stronger" than a solid neck....considering the joint failure I experienced.

[AndrewG]

Does it matter? Nope. As a former UMGF member I remember the angst and torment suffered by other members when Martin began adding headstock 'wings', instantly reducing their lives to an eternity of trauma and interminable pages of internet outrage. But I was strong... I wonder if that same shock to the sensibilities occurred when Martin stopped using a separately glued headstock.

[gitarro]

I believe many somogyi guitars were built with such heels so theres certainly nothing inherently inferior about this construction technique.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

I'm sorry... I thought this thread was about Elton John's stage shoes.

Trivia alert; in the early 1970s I worked for the shoemaker responsible for those

[gitarro]

Ok based on that the somogyi heel would be considered a one piece heel glued onto the neck rather than many pieces of wood glued together to form a heel.

Originally Posted by printer2

Looked up some reasonable mahogany neck blanks, roughly $150 shipped. Divide that by two, $75 a neck. Not a large sum if you are selling a guitar for $1000+ but at $400-500 things get a little tight with a few guitars lying around. There is a difference between a stacked heel and a one piece heel glued on the neck.





And this.




As far as the short grain that comes with a one piece neck I think the head end is more inclined to come to a bad end than the heel.

[hat]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

The solution which satisfies aesthetics, as well as engineering and ecological considerations, is to have a 3 piece, or 5 piece. or 7 piece, or 9 piece vertically laminated neck, which avoids the (totally understandable) aesthetic objections to the stacked heel.

This I agree with. I can accept factory built guitars having a stacked heel. The financials of a 'big business' almost dictate it. But if I am buying a boutique guitar I don't want to see that. A nice vertical lamination, like Gibson uses on the J15, is aesthetically acceptable. Regardless of claims of strength, environment, etc...it really all boils down to the $$. If I'm spending $2K plus on a guitar, that's not something I'm willing to accept.

[BrunoBlack]

Another Froggy with a joined heel and a scarf joint in headstock. Perfectly executed IMO. I understand we don't see many necks breaking, but a joined neck might be more likely to remain straight & flat because it is more difficult to find a perfectly straight-grained solid cross section of neck-long wood. Grain angle often shifts as you go up the tree. Of course, there are perfectly executed 1-piece necks too.



Here's the scarf