Dave’s Bose Thoughts

[martingitdave]

Who cares what Dave thinks about Bose? Nobody. But, that never stopped me before!

I’ve had a complicated “relationship” with Bose. Why? Because I’m a cheapskate.

As a young person, I worked in a music shop and sold guitars, band instruments, and audio gear to help pay for school. I was a good sales person for such a young guy. My key to success was never to oversell a customer. They appreciated that, trusted me, and always came back.

Unfortunately, since I was also gigging, I spent a lot of that school money on gear. Of course, none of that gear, that we used to make and perform music, would pass muster nowadays. But, I digress.

The proprietor of our shop was a real professional musician and gear expert. He taught me a lot. What he taught me about Bose was simple. None of our customers could afford it. Full stop. We sold a lot of Peavey gear because it worked well, sounded good, was affordable, and reasonably reliable. We would occasionally get a Bose product that would sit on a shelf in the back until someone more affluent would walk in. The owner would wink and tease me by saying “No highs, no lows, must be Bose.”

Once I got to college I stopped buying gear. I studied music as a minor and went into engineering instead. So, I completely lost touch with music gear in my 20s and 30s. I got back into music when my kids were born.

Why is his important? It’s not. But, it offers some background on my thoughts.

Bose makes some very impressive products. They also have some very strange (almost stubborn) design choices. They don’t change their products very often. They market well. They are very expensive. And, they don’t discount because they are price locked! Those no good dirty so and so’s. :-)

I did not want to buy Bose products because of the prices. For instance, I travel a lot. I’ve always wanted those fancy Bose headphones that the chaps in first class wore on the plane. But, I would NEVER pay $350 for headphones! Insanity, I say.

Instead, I went through 4 pairs of $100 headphones that were not very good. Last year, I decided to go and treat myself for my birthday. Well, I’ve used those headphones nearly every day during my daily train commute and when I travel. I don’t like leaving the house to travel without my QC3.5 headphones. Other than my phone, I can’t think of a single tech product that I actually USE more.

When I was looking at compact PA gear for my little folk singing endeavors I wanted a Bose L1. I’ve played through L1s many times over the years. My vocals never sound better than through a Bose L1.

But, the compact L1 had insufficient features, the expensive add on mixer had only 3 XLRs and required another power supply. The system cost $1500! No way I said. I bought the Fishman SA200 instead. Then, I sold that within 6 months because I didn’t like the sound that much. It was uninspiring.

The way Bose markets their products they make the lower end products with a few missing key features to entice you to step up to the next model. So, I kept looking at the Model 2 and 1S L1 systems. But $3,000 was simply too much for me. And, to be honest, the L1M2 is overkill for my needs. So, I bought a floor model HK Audio Lucas Nano 608i for less than 1/3 of the cost of the Bose. So far, that doesn’t seem like a "bad" decision. But, the system is not as compelling to my ears. It's a bit "sterile." As a result, I seldom use it for practice.

Then, Bose released the S1 Pro. I had some store credit to spend and some gear to sell and trade. So, I got one. The cost of entry was low enough and I liked the features on paper. I admit to getting caught up in the hype. However, like the headphones, I don’t regret this decision. In fact, I’ve practiced amplified at home more often in the last few weeks then I did all last year. Why? My voice sounds good through this thing. I’m not sure if it’s the DSP or the speakers, or both. But, I’m not crazy. And I can’t get that sound with my Play Acoustic or built in mixer on the 608i. I can get close, but it’s not the same thing. The guitar is easy to EQ. The human voice, which is my main instrument, is not. Go figure.

So, do I think Bose is overpriced? Heck yes! Do I like my Bose products? Yes, for some reason more than my other gear. Is it the best stuff out there? Probably not. Will it last the test of time? Who knows? Will I buy more of their stuff? Probably.

[EDIT: There is a software update for my HK Nano 608i that may help me get closer to the Bose L1 vocal quality. I will post back after I've had a chance to try it]

[Vancebo]

Thanks Dave for that. I feel like I know you a little bit better.

I recently sold my Bose L1 Model 2 which I had since it came out. That system replaced the original L1 system that I owned the day that the Portland GC received it. It has performed very well and they are extremely well built. To top it all off, when I sold this one, I sold it to a former Bose Performing artist who simply missed her old unit since she went into software engineering and Bose took it back from her.

I agree with your assessment. I just might get those wireless Bose headphones I keep passing by at Costco. I may have a hard time replacing my AER Compact 60 with an S1 because it really sounds nice. The Bose has a couple more features for less money. But hey, life is more fun when there is so much cool new gear to check out.

[troggg]

The silver lining for Bose stuff is it's generally reliable. Complaints about price are infinitely more likely than complaints about trustworthiness.

Therefore buy it used, use it as long as you like, then sell it for what you paid for it -- because unlike other competitor companies, whatever Bose gear you bought will probably still be current x amount of years later.

p.s. I totally agree about the vocals. There's plenty of options for guitar sounds ... but way less ways to get surefire top quality vocals in a highly portable configuration.

[Captain Jim]

Back in the 70s, I played in a rock band that was looking for a new PA. The other guitar player was lobbying for a pair of Bose 802s. I swayed the vote towards a huge Voice of the Theater Altec Lansing A7 set up. It sounded good and looked impressive.

The first Bose product I tried was an aviation headset - after doing a demonstration of their first noise-cancelling technology (around 1990, I think). In a multi-engine cockpit, these things were unbelievable! I bought two at $1k each. Loved 'em and subsequently bought a Bose surround sound set up and a Wave Radio for the house.

The Bose technology made me re-think those days of schlepping that huge PA equipment around in my youth. I was using a heavy Peavey PA still, doing solo stuff. Seven or eight years ago I auditioned a Bose L1c. In spite of my previous Bose usage, I wasn't convinced something that small could do the job... the equipment showed me otherwise. I had heard all the same "No highs, no lows... over-priced..." quips. It took me a while to learn that you don't need the same sound levels to get great sound. I am sold on the Bose for my usage.

I'm looking forward to checking out the S1 for home use.

[Pnewsom]

Quality only hurts once!

[JakeStone]

Dave ... Excellent read as always.

When I hear people talking about Bose stuff...
It reminds me of what Jerry Garcia said about his band and licorice.

“We're like licorice. Not everybody likes licorice,
but the people who like licorice really like licorice.”

Personally, I know what sounds good to me.
I own the L1C and it works and sounds perfect to my ears *for what I do...
Solo Acoustic covers and Singer Songwriter type stuff. Just me and my Guitar and Voice.

The thing I like about the Bose is that... It is not "blasting" me or audience.. It is pleasant sounding. Not over bearing.
Best of all.. It is full sounding and enveloping at times. Sounds natural to my ears. Not shrill...Real magic...

The S1 Pro? .. "You had me at hello" ..
I bought one the first day they were announced.

With that said, I am open minded and like to try all sorts of gear.
I'd been though several different "personal" PA setups in the past year.

The 3 Bose purchases that I have made in past 3 months have been keepers..
But what's really cool is they were keepers from day 1.. very first time I plugged in.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

Dave ... Excellent read as always.

When I hear people talking about Bose stuff...
It reminds me of what Jerry Garcia said about his band and licorice.

“We're like licorice. Not everybody likes licorice,
but the people who like licorice really like licorice.”

Personally, I know what sounds good to me.
I own the L1C and it works and sounds perfect to my ears *for what I do...
Solo Acoustic covers and Singer Songwriter type stuff. Just me and my Guitar and Voice.

The thing I like about the Bose is that... It is not "blasting" me or audience.. It is pleasant sounding. Not over bearing.
Best of all.. It is full sounding and enveloping at times. Sounds natural to my ears. Not shrill...Real magic...

The S1 Pro? .. "You had me at hello" ..
I bought one the first day they were announced.

With that said, I am open minded and like to try all sorts of gear.
I'd been though several different "personal" PA setups in the past year.

The 3 Bose purchases that I have made in past 3 months have been keepers..
But what's really cool is they were keepers from day 1.. very first time I plugged in.

Agreed! BTW, it looks like we have the same taste in electric amps too. I updated my signature. ;-)

[JakeStone]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Agreed! BTW, it looks like we have the same taste in electric amps too. I updated my signature. ;-)

Nice! Great amps. Mine has an Eminence Cannabis Rex inside..

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

Nice! Great amps. Mine has an Eminence Cannabis Rex inside..

You have no idea how hard it is not to make stoner jokes right now... must... resist... don't... want... to... get... banned...

[JakeStone]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

You have no idea how hard it is not to make stoner jokes right now... must... resist... don't... want... to... get... banned...

I know... But the amp does have smokin' sound!

[JohnDWilliams]

Okay, I'll ramble too.

As of this week I've done an even dozen gigs with the Lucas Nano 608i and am going to get rid of my Carvin AG300, extension cab, and sub. The 608i easily fills the space that the Carvin setup did.

I also got the roller bag and S-Connect pole for the 608i so transport and set up are amazingly easy. I can make one trip into the venue and be set up and playing in five minutes. Gigs that I used just the AG300 with no extension or sub were close to that but the 608i has so much more capability with no additional set up.

Bluetooth for playing tracks and also for controlling the 608i is surprisingly important. Lucas has fixed the bug that lost connectivity when switching apps so I can have the mixer, my track player (OneTrack), and break music on one surface.

This has turned out to be significant for several reasons: I can do sound check from the back of the room, I can have presets for frequently-played rooms, finding a position on stage is much simpler with less clutter, setup is way quicker (one device, no cables), and the functionality is easy to make redundant. I use my iPhone as a backup for tracks and break music if something happens to the iPad.

I also do solo acoustic gigs with steel and nylon string guitars. They sound very good through the 608i. I also have three EAE/Sunburst Gear boxes that I usually use when doing outdoor weddings. They sound great too.

I've done a few weddings where I did the ceremony music (solo guitar) then moved to do some jazz (with tracks) for cocktails. The EAE boxes were acceptable for this only because very little volume was needed.

I had a Bose system (L1 Model 2) but they didn't have the punch that the 608i or even the AG300 does. My tracks have bass and drums and they really need the punch especially in a larger room. I didn't get it from the L1. I don't do any vocals and that might be the differentiator for Bose.

I'm going to sell the Carvin gear and audition a Bose S1. If it's reasonable I'll pick it up and gig with it a bit to form a real opinion. Nothing wrong with the EAE/Sunburst Gear but I'm mostly curious.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by JohnDWilliams

Okay, I'll ramble too.

As of this week I've done an even dozen gigs with the Lucas Nano 608i and am going to get rid of my Carvin AG300, extension cab, and sub. The 608i easily fills the space that the Carvin setup did.

I also got the roller bag and S-Connect pole for the 608i so transport and set up are amazingly easy. I can make one trip into the venue and be set up and playing in five minutes. Gigs that I used just the AG300 with no extension or sub were close to that but the 608i has so much more capability with no additional set up.

Bluetooth for playing tracks and also for controlling the 608i is surprisingly important. Lucas has fixed the bug that lost connectivity when switching apps so I can have the mixer, my track player (OneTrack), and break music on one surface.

This has turned out to be significant for several reasons: I can do sound check from the back of the room, I can have presets for frequently-played rooms, finding a position on stage is much simpler with less clutter, setup is way quicker (one device, no cables), and the functionality is easy to make redundant. I use my iPhone as a backup for tracks and break music if something happens to the iPad.

I also do solo acoustic gigs with steel and nylon string guitars. They sound very good through the 608i. I also have three EAE/Sunburst Gear boxes that I usually use when doing outdoor weddings. They sound great too.

John,

Thanks for your contribution. I didn't realize they had fixed the bug. Do I need to update the firmware on my 608i, or just the app on the iPad? Thanks for the heads up! This was really annoying me.

[JohnDWilliams]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

John,

Thanks for your contribution. I didn't realize they had fixed the bug. Do I need to update the firmware on my 608i, or just the app on the iPad? Thanks for the heads up! This was really annoying me.

Not sure if it's in the iPad app or the 608i software. I did both and noticed it's fixed. Didn't look at the update history.

Not a bad idea to keep both updated I think. Only takes a minute or two.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by JohnDWilliams

Not sure if it's in the iPad app or the 608i software. I did both and noticed it's fixed. Didn't look at the update history.

Not a bad idea to keep both updated I think. Only takes a minute or two.

Thanks again! I think you saved me $600 on an outboard Bose mixer. :-)

[troggg]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks again! I think you saved me $600 on an outboard Bose mixer. :-)

Well more like $500ish since there are frequent 15% off sales, but still ...