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Old 10-22-2014, 09:16 AM
ElCamino ElCamino is offline
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Default Researching Home Recording. What are Your Thoughts?

Am researching setting up a home recording "studio." Nothing fancy. I'm a total newbie. And I'd like to spend less than $1,000. I'm leaning toward computer-based over DAW (i.e. a self contained unit like a Tascam, etc. Not sure I've got my terminology correct.)--despite the extra expense. Computer just seems so much more intuitive. If that's the way to go, I'm understanding that I'll need a Mac (possibly a Mini w/ 8 gig of RAM or more vs. PC with the latency issues, etc.), an interface, mic, speakers and/or headphones, monitor and some software-- Garage Band, Pro Tools, Logic, Studio One, or something else?

There are some packages out there with some of the gear if I buy new, which I can supplement and possibly stay under budget. Plus Craig's List and eBay, etc. Oh, I play both acoustic and electric and sing.

How's my train of thought? Agree? Disagree? Better choices? Potential pitfalls? Success stories? And why to back up your opinions is always appreciated. Pretend I dunno squat, because ... well, I dunno squat.

Thanks!!!

Last edited by ElCamino; 10-22-2014 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 10-22-2014, 10:13 AM
ADK ADK is offline
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I haven't recorded in a few years, but I had a similar set up to yours and it worked fine for what I wanted. I had a PC, mics, monitors, headphones, an interface, and I used nTrack software. Other than nTrack and my mics (MXL V67G and a Shure) I honestly can't remember the brand names of the other gear, but it wasn't super-expensive or super-cheap stuff. More than the gear itself was learning how to get the most out of it all. Things like monitor height and understanding compression took a while to learn, but the set-up itself worked well. Not including the PC, the gear cost about 1000.

Good luck.

Last edited by ADK; 10-22-2014 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:00 AM
lapetrarca lapetrarca is offline
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Yes, you can absolutely get started for less than $1000 and you absolutely DO NOT need a MAC.

You'll need some type of computer, Mac or PC, your choice and an interface is a must. Trying to record without one will only lead to frustration.

Mind you, we're talking a budget setup here. Any and all equipment could be bought used as well. Craigslist and Ebay can be your friend.

There's no question, my "studio" is a tightly budgeted setup but, with so much to learn, I'm not willing to invest in a lot of high end equipment only to find out later that I don't need it.

Later on, as I progress, I can upgrade as required and my "budget" equipment can double as backup gear.

You'll also need software. I you go the PC route, I HIGHLY recommend Mixcraft by Acoustica. VERY easy to use and the download version is fully functional for, I believe, 14 days. It's reasonably priced.

http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/

I also found the home recording classes they held at Guitar Center a great help in getting started. It was a big help seeing different concepts and techniques demonstrated instead of just reading about it.

At the time, they taught using GarageBand by Apple. Mixcraft is almost a PC clone.

Hope this helps!
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:36 AM
ElCamino ElCamino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapetrarca View Post
Hope this helps!
Holy smokes. Does this EVER help. Especially your tip about not having to buy a Mac. So no latency problems with PC?

I've already got a Dell laptop with an intel CORE i5 processor and I THINK a decent amount of RAM. Macs are cool, but I was slightly bummed that I might have to fork over $500+ for a used Mac to not run into troubles. You think not, though, huh? Anymore thoughts on that?

Thanks again!!!!
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:28 PM
philjs philjs is offline
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The real difference between a PC and a Mac Mini is in the background noise that the computer makes. The Mac mini, because it has no fans and the body of the computer is one large heat sink, is dead quiet. Many (many) people with PCs (or older tower Macs) have to re-locate the box to an adjacent room because the fans just make too much noise.

IF your Dell notebook is quiet, or your setup allows you to point the null of the mics at the notebook, then you may not have as much of an issue. Another option, if you have an iPad or other tablet or smart phone is a remote control app (eg. V-Control Pro) that will let you control the recording process from a different location than the room that has your computer.

Phil
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:32 PM
ADK ADK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCamino View Post
Holy smokes. Does this EVER help. Especially your tip about not having to buy a Mac. So no latency problems with PC?

I've already got a Dell laptop with an intel CORE i5 processor and I THINK a decent amount of RAM. Macs are cool, but I was slightly bummed that I might have to fork over $500+ for a used Mac to not run into troubles. You think not, though, huh? Anymore thoughts on that?

Thanks again!!!!
When I was researching, I read so much about how I needed a Mac. I decided to try using my PC first. I never, ever had an issue with latency or anything else. As for noise, I placed the tower in my desk's cabinet with some thick foam.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:49 PM
lapetrarca lapetrarca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCamino View Post
Holy smokes. Does this EVER help. Especially your tip about not having to buy a Mac. So no latency problems with PC?

I've already got a Dell laptop with an intel CORE i5 processor and I THINK a decent amount of RAM. Macs are cool, but I was slightly bummed that I might have to fork over $500+ for a used Mac to not run into troubles. You think not, though, huh? Anymore thoughts on that?

Thanks again!!!!
The interface takes care of the latency. That's what I was referring to when I said you'll only frustrate yourself trying to record direct to PC via either USB or mic in.

I'm running an Win7 on an HP laptop with 4Gb ram. No problems. The laptop is dedicated solely to home recording.

Here's a shot of my humble, budget minded studio.....

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Old 10-22-2014, 01:17 PM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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To echo the others, you absolutely do not need a Mac. Shop around for a 'close out' PC (if you even need to buy one) - I got an HP tower with 6G RAM and 500G hard drive for $300.

You'll need an interface - what is the maximum number of separate tracks you would ever need to record at one time? How many mics at one time, this will helpnarrow down the vast field of audio interfaces. USB 2.0 and the proper drivers will eliminate any latency issues (direct monitoring takes care of that).

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation and refers to either a stand-alone recorder OR a software package. I recommend Reaper - full featured, free to download and try out the full version, pay $60 to register it when you decide its the one for you.

Headphones (closed back) for tracking with mics to tracks already recorded.
Monitors - for listening back and mixing. 5" minimum woofers (bigger is better, but size of your room is important).
Acoustic treatment - bass traps (not 'acoustic foam'), broadband absorption is necessary in every room situtation. You can try reocrding in a closet, making your own 'vocal booth', hanging duvets and packing blankets around the space, but in the end it's better (and not that costly) to do it correctly.

Of course you'll also need mics, and stands, a pop filter, cables ....
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:18 PM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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If you don't require mac only daw software, and you already have the dell, there is little reason to not use it. I have Samplitube on my toshiba i5 laptop and it records perfectly. How many tracks it will record at once I cannot say.
For a serious mixdown session with alot of tracks and effects I don't suspect it would cut it. I have a rackmount PC daw for that, but the laptop is a really convenient portable tracking rig.
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Old 10-22-2014, 02:19 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Check out my "Simple Homestyle Recording" page for a bunch of answers to the questions you're asking. I run an older Dell XP tower and I've done 16 tracks with no issues. There's no reason a PC won't work for you, unless you're just craving a MAC for some reason.

http://www.bluestemstrings.com/pageRecording1.html
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:56 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha El Camino

Aloha El Camino,

I'm no recording expert but I've been around it for half a century & into DAW home recording now for eight years. I've put together a signal chain that works for my simple acoustic recordings & gets consistent results now. IMO, a great place to start your recording odyssey, El, is to buy a small recorder like the Zoom H4n. In mastering that all-in-one unit, you will learn a lot about how recording works w/ out a major investment of the next steps up the ladder.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/H4N/

Sure, you can use your PC w/ a DAW to start-off for editing, mixing & mastering your recordings made on the H4n. And use the H4n simply as an interface/microphone unit (it has more features than you'll use) to convert your analog signal into digital computer language. It has onboard FX too, Furthermore, the H4n also allows you to add better external mic's later (a big plus when you want to experiment w/ stereo mic placement, beyond X/Y config. limits of the onboard H4n mic's). It's an amazing unit for a modest price & a great place to start, El. (PM me w/ questions about other possible starting point gear, El Camino);

Download the free Audacity DAW or more complete, cheap Reaper DAW to edit your projects (or free Garageband if you go with a Mini). Those are good starter DAW's.

I recommend that you store your musical projects using a good quality EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE (Glyph's have the best quality & guarantees). Why tie-up space on your PC's HD, right?

Of course you'll need good headphones (AKG Studio 240K's are a semi-enclosed, under-$100 industry standard), near-field monitors (best you can afford - mine are Adam A7X's), cables (Mogami for me), etc. You'll figure those out.

BUT THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY MAXIMIZE ANY SIGNAL CHAIN @ ANY LEVEL IS THROUGH ROOM TREATMENT!!!

It's easy & sexy to talk about mic's, monitors, etc. here. But it's VERY NECESSARY to also discuss room treatment & to treat your space - even if it's just for a small recorder setup. If you can't control the early reflections of your room, you simply cannot achieve consistent results & clarity in all the frequencies. Worse, you cannot do anything but close-mike your instruments in an untreated room. So you can't experiment much - a major limitation! That's the reality, El.

So start off by thinking about your space. Put an SPF meter on it to graphically show you where the issues are in your space. Treat it.

DIY Room Treatment needn't be expensive or permanent. Make 2-to-9 DIY 4'x2'x4' (buy 2" thick & double up) broad-band absorbers made from Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass (face the rigid side towards the music source) - all ya need. Simplest would be to use two panels just behind the mic's. Better would be using 9 panels around & above where you track (play): Two in front, two behind you, two on each side, & one hung above you. It's kind of creating a "room-within-a-room" situation using the absorbers like that. You'll need more panels to treat the whole room & mixing area (the reason why I made 22). A plywood floor panel (no carpet) is fine for recording.

You can also hang double layers of movers blankets, 4" apart, in front of sliding doors, windows & other bright surfaces (flat screen TV's on a wall?). This can help with taming some of the harsher room mid's, but not all freq's. Broad-brand absorbers do that.

The tools & materials required (white burlap is nice & durable as a cover) are all available from Walmart. You can put the panels away when not in use & use the room for other purposes. No big permanent construction installation at all. I made 22 absorbers that work extremely well for controlling whatever spaces I've recorded in, at a fraction of the cost of pre-made gobos.

Here are Fran Guidry's videos on how/why to make DIY broad-band absorbers for Room Treatment:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

Here are the reasons (all of them) for using Room Treatment from Ethan Winer:

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Another great place to learn about treatment (& all things audio) is gearslutz.com

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

Their "studio building" site is full of advice & pictures of guys' treated DIY studios.

RE: PC vs. Mac. Everything in my life & business is PC - except for my recording rig which is Apple. Sure, you can use a PC successfully for recording. You don't need a Mac. But there are so many reasons to go w/ Mac's for your recording projects, you may want a Mac. NOTE: Ideally, you should not mix/match music with everyday computing tasks on the same machine. If you use a dedicated computer for your recording projects, it will prevent a lot of headaches down the line, El. Just saying (from experience).

Some PC's still have issues with some DAW's, & also with some external FX & definitely with some external plug-in's as well - that Mac's do not have. Their very design of updates from many, many sources ensures that an error you cannot overcome will come sooner than later & that can mean lost data. For that reason alone, older Mac OS versions can be used longer than most Windows. Windows can really become buggy as time goes on, depending on the version.

I had severe issues for the year I used Pro Tools on a PC. So after researching a lot & trying 18 DAWS out (recommended: download samples from their sites to see which workflow works for you. They don't work for everybody), I went with an iMac & Apple's Logic Pro DAW. I'm still using OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard on an older iMac & older Logic Pro version 9.1.3 & they don't skip a beat. Very happy w/ my choices for home recording.

BTW, Logic Pro & Pro Tools are considered to be the only two full-featured, pro-level DAW's used by every studio. The sooner you get to either of those, the easier it will be to record & also to master tracks at a studio. Can't do that in Reaper. Try to avoid starting on one DAW & switching around a few times. What you learn on is the one most stick with. So make the right choice the first time out - try out those free DAW downloads, El.

I switched to an iMac 21.5" 3.06 w/ 8 RAM/Logic Pro 9.1.3 DAW/ & Apogee interfaces (Duet & Ensemble) I store projects on a Glyph GTQ 1TB external HD. I have Not had a single crash in 8 years now! Nuff sed for stability of Mac's !?! BTW, Apple & Apogee have completely integrated their software & hardware. Hard to beat that combo, El. A former high-end mic addict, I now have just a few after the big purge last year. But they are the perfect mic's for my guitars & vocals. I have auditioned hundreds of mic's on my rig over the years.

Additionally, Apple provides their famous 'One-to-One Program' if you buy new. That means you get an unlimited number of free one-on-one trainings in whatever you need for up to two years & it was really cheap - $99 bucks for a year & you can re-sign the next year too for tune-ups! Logic Pro, Garageband, whatever - free training! I got 64 sessions on Logic Pro in one year! Can't beat that, El. Check it out!

So yeah, in my experience, recording using Mac's has been much more successful & fruitful than using PC's.

Here's a glimpse of one of Doug Young's projects which he shared with us a couple years back. His DAW is Logic Pro. His signal chain is first rate across the board - so's his playing. Interesting stuff, huh, the way he crafts that piece:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/WSSDemo.php

Gotta go now. That should keep ya busy with your research for awhile, El. Knowledge in advance will save you money, time & lead to better sounding projects. Do the homework now, my friend. Experience will teach you the rest.

But please, do yourself a favor & start thinking about how you'll be treating your space. It'll cut your "so-so results" learning period by years! It'll take many beginner issues & questions right off your board so you can get into the music quicker rather than fighting a mid-rangey sound where the freq's seem to melt together w/o definition or clarity in an un-treated space. Treatment works!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: There have been many, many threads here on this topic. All the answers are there. Check them out, then go to work, El. You'll have a blast! -alohachris-

Last edited by alohachris; 10-24-2014 at 03:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2014, 08:41 PM
robroy robroy is offline
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If I knew then what I know now, here's how I'd spend my hard earned money, though I may go over your budget. I'm on a Mac so garageband is free and good enough for quite a while in my opinion.

I'd spend $600 on Apogee Duet 2 interface. or about $400 used. Then I'd spend a couple hundred on a rode nt1-a mic, or again, find one or two used.

That's about it to get off to a real nice start. You may want to upgrade mics down the road for a wee bit of difference, but with the Duet you'll be getting some quality recordings from the start. good luck!
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:10 AM
ElCamino ElCamino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha El Camino, I'm no recording expert but ...
Aloha Chris. Meant to thank you the other day when you posted but only now am getting to it. While I appreciate everyone's input and opinions, you really went all out. Thank you very, very much.

PS am envious of your locale. Spent three Sept/Octobers on the North Shore of Maui during my windsurfing days. Mostly getting dragged in by real windsurfers after breaking masts, etc. I was a TOTAL Haole kook. Never made it anywhere else in Hawaii and I get that all the islands are unique, but the state as a whole is sooo cool, as is your home too I assume.

Anyhoo, thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. It won't be wasted!
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