2022 Martin Binding Issues? Yes!

[Bluenose]

I've owned 3 Martins and they've all had issues of some sort but not involving the binding thankfully

2017 Reimagined D28 bought new in 2017 - received from dealer with fret sprout. I filed them down. Sold the D28 to a friend last year at a loss. Oh well.

2012 OM18A bought used in 2019 - crazy high saddle, high action. I sanded the glued in saddle down a little at a time from the top until I could comfortably play it.

2022 00028 MD bought new in 2022 -rough braces- I sanded smooth all I could reach, a few small bubbles and some peeling of the clear coat by the tuners. I live with it.

I'm a player not a broker and I live a long ways from any repair shop so that's why if the binding started to separate from the body I would at least try to stabilize it but I also understand that there are lots of repairs beyond my ability that would require a professional.

[hifivic]

Originally Posted by ozzman

They do make planes Lockheed Martin. The Martin division is in charge of door binding

I'm dying

[Gryf]

I have a 2016 OM15 from the LA Guitars runs that they used to do. I love the guitar, and have from the start, but after about a yer, I noticed the binding pulling free at the waist. I've hesitated to take it in because the nearest Martin Repair person is about an hour away (I know, that's not TOO far), and I just haven't wanted to be without it for however long it owuld be gone.

One of these days, I'm just gonna do it.

[colins]

Originally Posted by Luckymud

I WILL say this. To know that it's been going on since about 2014 (?) and my 7-year-old guitar AND 2-year-old guitar also has the issue...idk folks, 8-10 years is enough time to fix this problem, and at this point it's pretty unacceptable.

Agreed, but I'd go further than 'pretty unacceptable; it is downright appalling. They only get away with it because of goodwill that has been built up over decades and that they are now squandering rather than actually fixing a significant problem they have known about for ten years.

Hundreds if not thousands of people are put out by this issue. It isn't class action material, but how about an online petition to embarrass them into doing better. My suggestion? A petition saying Chris Martin should stop being paid until this ten-year-old issue is fixed!

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by bobster7

If this was Gibson, or heaven forbid Eastman they would get absolutely slaughtered on forums such as this, but Martin seems to get a pass with a lot of people.

How does Martin get a pass? I can barely remember a time in the past several years where there wasn’t an active thread here, on UMGF, or elsewhere discussing this very issue. If there isn’t one, give it a week or two and there will be. They’re THAT frequent. And as an ongoing problem, they deserve the negative publicity. But I don’t see them getting a pass…

I guess I’ve been lucky - I’ve had quite a number of Martins going back to the 70’s, but 8-10 in the seven years since I started playing a lot, all relatively recent models, and I have yet to have this occur. I currently have two authentics (I haven’t heard about the problem with authentics so maybe they’re better built - you’d hope so given the cost) and two CEO-7s, which seem to have more binding separations than there are guitars in the wild. All are built in 2020 or 2021. Very possibly I’ll have this problem in the next few years with one or more of them and I’m sure, if it happens, I’ll be rightfully upset about it. But I love the guitars and will just have them repaired (likely at my cost - I’m the original owner of only one of the CEO-7s, the others I bought used) and keep on playing them.

But this is a constant topic of discussion here and elsewhere. If this is getting a pass, I don’t want to see what it looks like when people really get upset about it!

-Ray

[brancher]

Originally Posted by raysachs

How does Martin get a pass? I can barely remember a time in the past several years where there wasn’t an active thread here, on UMGF, or elsewhere discussing this very issue. If there isn’t one, give it a week or two and there will be. They’re THAT frequent. And as an ongoing problem, they deserve the negative publicity. But I don’t see them getting a pass…

I guess I’ve been lucky - I’ve had quite a number of Martins going back to the 70’s, but 8-10 in the seven years since I started playing a lot, all relatively recent models, and I have yet to have this occur. I currently have two authentics (I haven’t heard about the problem with authentics so maybe they’re better built - you’d hope so given the cost) and two CEO-7s, which seem to have more binding separations than there are guitars in the wild. All are built in 2020 or 2021. Very possibly I’ll have this problem in the next few years with one or more of them and I’m sure, if it happens, I’ll be rightfully upset about it. But I love the guitars and will just have them repaired (likely at my cost - I’m the original owner of only one of the CEO-7s, the others I bought used) and keep on playing them.

But this is a constant topic of discussion here and elsewhere. If this is getting a pass, I don’t want to see what it looks like when people really get upset about it!

-Ray

They are getting a 'pass' because they are going down the Harley Davidson business model path. Like HD, they are now selling 'nostalgia'. Oh? Don't believe me? How's about the 'road-worn look', the stamped-on 'played-in' look, or the unimaginative 'special editions'. And, like HD, they are upstaged at every price point by the Pacrim companies and the Euro makers, not to mention the boutique folks.

I would expect Martin to expand their wares to include, like HD, Martin napkin rings and wine glasses, Martin linens, and Martin leather pants, Christmas cards, 'gold level owner plaques', etc. And, like HD, the buyers will believe they are 'sticking it to the man!' by giving lots of money to 'the man'.... or something like that....

It is all about staying afloat. And the QC problems becoming more pervasive ain't helping the cause.

Sorry, a little sarcasm here. I still like my 18 after the binding replacement and a neck reset (yes that happened as well - 18 months into ownership). But you can see my point I hope.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by brancher

They are getting a 'pass' because they are going down the Harley Davidson business model path.

That's not "getting" a pass, that's "taking" a pass. And if that's their strategy, I don't like it either, but we all complain about it rather constantly. They're taking whatever strategy they're taking and will benefit or suffer from it as the market determines. The initial point I was reacting to was that any other guitar maker with this level of problem would be getting beaten about the head and face regularly on this an other forums, but that Martin was somehow "getting a pass". My point isn't to defend Martin at all, it's just acknowledging that they're getting beaten about the head and face pretty regularly on the forums too. As they probably should be.

-Ray

[BluesKing777]

Hmmm, I am starting to think I should hang on to my three repaired Martins - soon the Martins with binding repair could be worth more than a ‘lucky dip’....(new one that will chuck its binding in about 8 years time).

Nah, they are going - dead to me! Put the cash to a superb used Lowden.


BluesKing777.

[tomcstokes59]

Another binding thread and in passing reference to neck re-set issues concerning Martin QC. I was wondering how big of an actual problem it really is. The forum(s) tend to be more vocal but probably only represent a small population of the entire guitar buying public. As a percentage of guitars made, how many actually have these problems? Does the non-forum general public just think that getting these addressed is part of the guitar owning experience?

Neither issue influences my buying decisions as I prefer a slightly thicker neck than the MLO plus I seem to have a preference for slope shoulder models. It is a little disconcerting that Martin both refuses to acknowledge an issue as well as not being able to resolve it after 10 years. You would think with their knowledge of lutherie this would have been addressed. But that is assuming they feel they have a problem.

[CodeBlueEMT]

Sadly, until we get some new Inception threads, this is all we got.

Shayne

[massimo]

Since this forum represents only a small population of the entire guitar-buying public, and the number of post 2011-Martin owners complaining is very high here, I can only imagine how huge the absolute number of Martin owners with a defective guitar can be, outside the forums.
In one of the last threads on this subject it clearly emerged that all the posters claiming their Martins were unaffected either had a pre-2012 specimen, or one that was too new. Once these occurrences were removed, it became apparent that virtually all Martins built 2012 to 2018 have this fault.
I do not believe the general non-forum public may think this may be "part of the guitar-owning experience" simply because most guitar players in the world cannot afford a Martin, and have cheaper guitars- which ironically have stable bindings😊

[Gryf]

Originally Posted by massimo

I do not believe the general non-forum public may think this may be "part of the guitar-owning experience" simply because most guitar players in the world cannot afford a Martin, and have cheaper guitars- which ironically have stable bindings😊

I've been buying and playing guitars for several decades now, and my Martin with this problem is the only guitar I've ever bought in all those years that had any workmanship problems whatsoever.

I don't give Martin a "pass" on this like earlier comments were stating. I love my Martin, despite the loose binding (hope to get it repaired soon), but I won't be buying anything else they make. There are too many other excellent guitars out there.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I have 3 Martins, a 1967 D-35, a 2006 000-28VS, and a 2018 D-45. I've never had a binding separation on my Martins, but I live in a region with 40-60% relative humidity and that may help. My Ric 360-12 had serious binding separation problems that was repaired at my expense by my local technician.

It's disheartening to read about all these problems on Martins.

- Glenn

Glenn- I’m in San Francisco CA- Also nearly perfect RH for guitars- Saw the finish separation la couple weeks ago on my ‘18 reimagined J40.
Martin needs to reimagine their process.

[Luckymud]

Originally Posted by tomcstokes59

The forum(s) tend to be more vocal but probably only represent a small population of the entire guitar buying public. As a percentage of guitars made, how many actually have these problems? Does the non-forum general public just think that getting these addressed is part of the guitar owning experience?

On both of my guitars, the binding separation is really minor and only noticeable under close scrutiny. The 00-18 has gotten worse over the last few years, and you can see the white of the crystalized glue along several inches of all 4 waist spots. However, There's no "air gap" between the binding and body yet. My CEO-7's binding is only losoe in one small spot about an inch long, and it looks very clean (no crystalized glue). But you can feel along the binding where the finish isn't smooth to the binding any more, and it's clearly going to release in a larger portion in the future.

So if the average player isn't looking super close at their guitar all the time, it could possibly just look like "wear and tear," I guess?

I've contacted Martin about both these binding issues (and the third non-binding but serious QC issues) guitars. In passing, I mentioned getting a quote for wood binding replacement instead repair to the plastic, and the customer service rep I spoke to seemed VERY excited about that prospect ("I think that's a great idea"). Of course, I'd have to pay out of pocket for this option. I wonder how much they'll quote me for a full binding replacement with wood.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by brancher

Unfortunately, my 2017 D-18 had the same issue within 18 mos. of purchase. First Martin suggested that I was not humidifying (I have a humidified music room with three other guitars that are very happy), then they sent me to a Luthier 2 hours away from my home (he refused to do the work, cited Martin's policies toward their certified repair folks), then finally accepted it for repair. Took 6 months to get it back. Since then I have looked at two other Martins to purchase, both had binding separation issues.

I do love my 18, great sound and mojo, but as someone else posted, this is sort of absurd. The good news is, there are many other guitars out there that cost less, sound great, and don't come apart.


As usual, ymmv.

Ah yes...the time honored "when in doubt, blame YOUR customer". GM's done it for many decades.

Sadly, it shouldn't be this way, but since Martin REFUSES to fix THEIR issue, the only way forward is for people to NOT buy new Martins. It's not an honor to own a Martin, but Martin should (but doesn't) consider it an honor that someone bought a Martin. If sales decline enough, they will wake up, and hopefully not too late. The U.S. car industry went through the same thing and has never been the same.
Arrogance has brought down many companies.