Dave’s pickup adventures 2017-2018 edition - Page 3

Petty1818 · #31 10-14-2017, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Petty, I think you will be fine with amulet and tonedexter. Don t forget Amulet has the best dynamic with the 18v preamp. I am very happy with my own IR pedal and Sprucetop also with amulet + TD.

Try tonedexter before removing the amulet

Definitely. If I go ahead with the Tonedexter, I will be pairing it with the Amulet to start. I just have to figure out why the Amulet is adding hiss to my signal.

Vancebo · #32 10-14-2017, 12:52 PM

I am not a molecular scientist but we have been installing K and Ks for years with superglue and hardly a blink. What’s the concern with epoxy? Teddy uses epoxy because he has tried every glue he can find and it sounds better to his ears and is easy to handle. Superglue or any other glue could be used for that matter. If you can install K and K or a Trance, these are easier.

Doug Young · #33 10-14-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I am not a molecular scientist but we have been installing K and Ks for years with superglue and hardly a blink. What’s the concern with epoxy? Teddy uses epoxy because he has tried every glue he can find and it sounds better to his ears and is easy to handle. Superglue or any other glue could be used for that matter. If you can install K and K or a Trance, these are easier.

The epoxy Teddy uses seems to come off a lot easier than superglue. I do wish he would use tape, and I did some experiments with him a while back on that, but we didn't get it to sound good. I suspect he'd need to take the tape into account when tweaking the pickup sound. Gryphon, however, installs Dazzos with tape and report it works fine for them. I have gotten to where I don't want to glue pickups in - the experience where it was impossible to install a Trance over a previous K&K install was enough to make me realize the glue is a commitment, even if you remove the pickups.

I think the issues of placement with Dazzo and Trance are maybe a bit misleading - a "tyranny of choice". You don't have to position them optimally. With K&Ks you have no choice - you glue them in the recommended position and you're done. Maybe they'd sound better a 1/16th of an inch over, but you have no way to know. With Dazzo and Trance, you can experiment, so instead of just installing in the recommended position and being happy (or not), there's always that "what if" thing. You play with positions because you can, not because you have to.

I'd say both Trance and Dazzo are easier to install than K&Ks what with the superglue, 3 little transducers that are hard to handle, etc. With both Trance and Dazzo, you can just reach in and stick them in place, really easy. Trance is the easiest with the double-sticky tape, but the slow-dry glue Teddy uses is pretty easy to deal with, too.

Vancebo · #34 10-14-2017, 05:55 PM

Well said Doug. I wish I would have kept a picture I took of the bridgeplate of a guitar I sold. I had removed Dazzos that were installed on it. I used epoxy remover which emulsified the epoxy. Fairly gentle scraping with a razor blade and the epoxy crumbled in pieces. A little light sanding with 200 grit sandpaper. I could not tell that the Dazzos were ever there. The process took 30 minutes tops.

Since the day you spent with Teddy, he has since changed his mounting procedure. His new installation method is better according to him. He even points them in a different direction.

Doug Young · #35 10-14-2017, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Since the day you spent with Teddy, he has since changed his mounting procedure. His new installation method is better according to him. He even points them in a different direction.

You mean pointing the tip into the string line? He was doing that last I time I saw him. Or has he changed again?. It's been a while since I last was over to his place. He's often said the position doesn't matter much - then he spends several hours playing with different positions :-) He's just a perfectionist.

Vancebo · #36 10-14-2017, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You mean pointing the tip into the string line?

The tip of the triangle that the wire sticks out now gets pointed to the bridge pins. He used to have the wire sticking out towards the sound hole. HE believes that he changed that after his time with you. It was a suggestion made to him from Leo Kottke. Teddy has spent a lot of time with some of his guitars.

Sorry Dave, I think I hijacked your thread.

Doug Young · #37 10-14-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

The tip of the triangle that the wire sticks out now gets pointed to the bridge pins. He used to have the wire sticking out towards the sound hole. HE believes that he changed that after his time with you. It was a suggestion made to him from Leo Kottke. Teddy has spent a lot of time with some of his guitars.

Sorry Dave, I think I hijacked your thread.

Definitely a thread hijack, add my apologies :-) On my Martin, he installed the tip pointing into the bridge pins, with the wire running toward the end-pin jack, so I think he's forgotten. He was texting Leo with each step of what we tried with the tape. We ended up gluing the ones in the Martin, but it sounds really good. I'm really happy with that setup.

Mbroady · #38 10-14-2017, 09:31 PM

K&K mini with the mic seems to be the ticket. Have this set up in 3 guitars and they all sound amazing. I would be tempted by the Trance if it had a mic option.

Had a Blueridge 000 with the 3 source K&K set up (mini/mic/UST) it was an amazing setup, especially when playing at louder volume.

martingitdave · #39 10-14-2017, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbroady

K&K mini with the mic seems to be the ticket. Have this set up in 3 guitars and they all sound amazing. I would be tempted by the Trance if it had a mic option.

Had a Blueridge 000 with the 3 source K&K set up (mini/mic/UST) it was an amazing setup, especially when playing at louder volume.

Which mic and preamp system are you using?

martingitdave · #40 10-14-2017, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Definitely a thread hijack, add my apologies :-) On my Martin, he installed the tip pointing into the bridge pins, with the wire running toward the end-pin jack, so I think he's forgotten. He was texting Leo with each step of what we tried with the tape. We ended up gluing the ones in the Martin, but it sounds really good. I'm really happy with that setup.

No apologies necessary. I enjoyed the Dazzo talk.

Doug Young · #41 10-15-2017, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbroady

. I would be tempted by the Trance if it had a mic option.

I added a mic to my Trance systems (straightforward but definitely waranty-voiding mod). It helps, tho I'm starting to lean toward just using ToneDexter, which seems to make the mic less important.

emmsone · #42 10-15-2017, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Vancebo, my biggest concern with the Dazzo is the epoxy installation. I’m reluctant to use epoxy on any of the guitars I have. I’d have to see Teddy do it in person before I’d have the guts to use it on my Marquis or Custom shop Martin. I’m fairly adept at installing and removing K&K with no mess. My expectation is that, like Trance, there would be better high end articulation. And, that would be probably a perfect solution for me, otherwise.

Personally, I find epoxy easier to deal with than superglue.
Teddy recommended for me to use Loctite 6 minute gel on my Dazzo install. If you have some spare bridgeplate material lying around not in a guitar, you could get some epoxy from your local hardware store and test glue some things together to get a feel of it. If you've never used epoxy, do a test mix up to make sure you combine the two parts effectively, other than that, its simple.
I also find epoxy cleans up nicely if you have to remove it. You could also do some test removals too and see if it cleans up as you would like.

David

Cuki79 · #43 10-15-2017, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

It helps, tho I'm starting to lean toward just using ToneDexter, which seems to make the mic less important.

Wow, that's a breaking news. Doug, do you use Tonedexter alone with the amulet straight in or do you blend the Tonedexter IR applied with a dry analog path like John Jorgenson?

Cuki

martingitdave · #44 10-15-2017, 07:04 AM

Thanks everyone for the confidence inspiring advice on using epoxy with Dazzo. I will certainly give it a try in the future. In the meantime, all my guitars are setup with K&K and I’m fairly satisfied. I’ll be experimenting with IR solutions going forward. I’m basically looking to add a little “air” to the signal and maybe some additional resonance. I’m going to work on a home brew system with Cuki. Plus, I am going to test the Zoom pedal and hopefully a Tonedexter in the near future. Since I’m not making a living playing music, I feel I can “cheat” a little by using IR instead of a mic and fairly fairly expensive analog preamp equipment. Doug’s rigs, in my opinion, are the gold standard for my kind of playing and tone targets. Unfortunately, I’m really looking to get something small, light, and portable in terms or outboard electronics.

Charmed Life Picks · #45 10-15-2017, 03:59 PM

Dave, great getting to know you better lately. Looking forward to my own pickup continuing journey. I have a Baggs Anthem SL in my HD-28 as well as a Trance Amulet in my Eastman E-10SS slope dread, both wonderful rigs.

Will keep you posted once I have the PUTW unit installed, maybe as late as January.

Be Well,
Scott