Rainsong's Recommendation for strings on the Shorty

Kindness · #1 07-20-2012, 10:48 AM

I do not know if this applies to their other models. Rainsong does not recommend using medium strings in standard tuning on the Shorty.

I play one whole step down and use a capo if needed. I started with the lights, and last night had my tech change the first string to a 17 gauge, and the second string to a 13 gauge. Huge improvement in sound, much richer and fuller.

Ashvin · #2 07-20-2012, 11:17 AM

Hi Lisa:

I wanted to clarify your statement a little...

Our instruments are designed to work with light gauge strings in standard tuning. This means that for this level of string tension, the instrument will play well.

Increasing the string tension (eg. medium strings in standard tuning) will cause changes to the setup ... the neck relief will increase and the soundboard will belly more. You may still be able to achieve optimal playability by adjusting the truss rod (if there is one) and lowering the saddle height. However, this is not something that we can guarantee. Therefore we do not recommend this option.

Thanks!

Dadgad4 · #3 07-23-2012, 02:36 PM

Ashvin - I have one of the new WS1000 12 frets on order from LA Guitar Sales. Since I only play in dadgad tuning, is it possible to use medium strings?

Ashvin · #4 07-23-2012, 03:51 PM

Should work fine ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadgad4

Ashvin - I have one of the new WS1000 12 frets on order from LA Guitar Sales. Since I only play in dadgad tuning, is it possible to use medium strings?

scooter74 · #5 07-23-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashvin

Hi Lisa:

I wanted to clarify your statement a little...

Our instruments are designed to work with light gauge strings in standard tuning. This means that for this level of string tension, the instrument will play well.

Increasing the string tension (eg. medium strings in standard tuning) will cause changes to the setup ... the neck relief will increase and the soundboard will belly more. You may still be able to achieve optimal playability by adjusting the truss rod (if there is one) and lowering the saddle height. However, this is not something that we can guarantee. Therefore we do not recommend this option.

Thanks!

Thanks for jumping in Ashvin!

jonfields45 · #6 07-23-2012, 05:54 PM

I love my words soooo much I'll post them here too:

I thought Ashvin's response was entirely about maintaining the factory setup, which is done with lights. Given you don't mind slightly higher action, slightly sharp intonation, a little more neck relief, then I think what he is saying, in the negative (since he can't guarantee setup with mediums), is go for it (maybe "don't not go for it" :~). All of these issues should be simple stuff for a guitar tech (sharp intonation means a custom saddle, not just a lower height saddle). There are guitars out there where the manufacturer specifically warns against medium or heavier strings for structural reasons. The Baby Taylor is one that comes immediately to mind. Jon

AndyFrank · #7 07-23-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I thought Ashvin's response was entirely about maintaining the factory setup, which is done with lights. Given you don't mind slightly higher action, slightly sharp intonation, a little more neck relief...

Also known as the Mac Nichols setup.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Kindness · #8 07-24-2012, 06:25 AM

I believe my guitar tech may have misinterpreted what Rainsong told him when he called, and I apologize for that. As Jon stated, as long as the set up is done properly, it sounds like medium strings are fine.

As Jon stated, some specific guitar manufacturers or builds by luthiers will state not to use medium strings a all.

dkoloff · #9 07-24-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itself

I believe my guitar tech may have misinterpreted what Rainsong told him when he called, and I apologize for that. As Jon stated, as long as the set up is done properly, it sounds like medium strings are fine.

As Jon stated, some specific guitar manufacturers or builds by luthiers will state not to use medium strings a all.

I would read Ashvin's post on the AGF in answer to the question....it was quite lukewarm to the idea of mediums. Not that we will not all try a variety but his position was defintely light leaning.......

jonfields45 · #10 07-24-2012, 08:46 AM

Here is D'Addario's data for 80/20 strings (slightly higher for PB, concert pitch, 25.4" scale):

80/20 12s 159.0 lbs.
80/20 LT/M 174.0
80/20 13s 183.5

Relative to the 159 lb. tension of 12s, this is all minor additional tension. RainSong (CA and Emerald) guitars are quite tough and consistent. I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I would find it hard to believe they could be engineered to handle 159 lbs. and not take a 15% overstress. Wooden guitars are glued up from inconsistent materials, with inconsistent strength and more importantly surface properties relative to gluing. And even wooden guitars don't fail due to the initial high tension, they need to creep, something epoxy and carbon are not going to do in any measurable way.

All that said, the higher action, and more importantly the sharper intonation, might not be fixable without resetting the neck, or putting on a new bridge to move the saddle back. These are expensive operations that Ashvin can not risk as warranty work by being enthusiastic about trying strings not used for the factory setup. That said, you can always put the 12s back on, let a luthier do the best that can be done with the saddle and truss rod (not all RainSongs have one), or just live with it (as I do with my Cargo and honestly you need a ruler calibrated in 64ths and a good quality tuner to even know the action went up or the intonation went imperceptibly sharp).

Enjoy your guitars and have fun trying every string type and gauge under the sun (well maybe not heavy gauge...).

Jon

SpruceTop · #11 07-28-2012, 06:45 PM

I put medium-guage strings on a RainSong DR1000 Classic Series dreadnought that I owned three years ago and noticed the neck relief only increased by about .002" and the 12th-fret action height--from additional top up-pull--increased by about .005". The guitar was still very playable with the original factory setup but the tone was noticeably louder, more immediate, and fuller with the medium-guage strings. These are the same characteristics a player will likely notice when switching from lights to mediums on a fine wooden dreadnought a la Martin D-18/D-28. A good compromise for ease of play and more pleasing tone--at least for me--is a set of medium-light-guage strings.

I haven't tried mediums on my RainSong CO-DR1000N2 but having a truss-rod should take care of any necessary neck-relief adjustment. I'm not sure how the increased string pull would affect the guitar's top shape and thus the action height at the 12th fret. With the CO Series having a thinner top, maybe there would be a bit more top up-pull with mediums but maybe the longitudinal strength properties of the unidirectional top would minimize this compared to a Classic Series top?

The nice thing about RainSong guitars is that the bridge is not only glued on the top but also is held down by three small bolts which are visible from inside the guitar.

My take on RainSong's guarantee--after contacting them on it--is that it pertains to guaranteeing the original factory setup playability with light-guage strings. In other words, structurally, there's nothing to worry about when going from light to medium guage strings.

Regards,

SpruceTop/RainDance