Beginner question..

[ToADM]

I had no idea where to put this, lol.. but uhm, I started playing acoustically back in septemberish, and blahblahblah, I developed calluses and playing stopped hurting up until about 3 days ago I got some major like, indents in my fingers and it hurts worse to play than ever. I haven't stopped playing, I've played everyday since I began. I just learned my first full song and I want to play it for my family but it hurts to much.. So I guess what I'm asking is:
What the heck? I thought all I needed to do was develop calluses once and keep playing everyday. Are the indents and pain a second-stage type deal? Or is there something wrong here?

[jseth]

Well, first of all, welcome to the AGF!

Now, the indents... hmmm... I get them sometimes, but mostly when my hands are cold-ish. I have been playing for 50 years or so, but not as much lately as I have in the past. My callouses aren't all that tough right now, and I can feel it after 30 minutes or so...

So, I guess it's a second stage deal, although I think that after 3 months, your callouses have a ways to go... my best friend, a fellow songwriter, says that he doesn't even have callouses anymore, that the nerve endings in his fingertips are just DEAD and he doesn't even feel a thing, regarding fretting the guitar!

You might just back off the practise a bit, not totally; give your fingertips a chance to "catch up" with the whole idea of playing the guitar!

Also, try to "feel" just the right amount of pressure you need to fret the notes; one thing that is common is to press down REALLY HARD, when a lighter touch will do nicely. Too heavy a fretting hand may be contributing to your pain...

Again, welcome to the Forum... look forward to seeing you around the halls...

play on...................................>

John

[ToADM]

Originally Posted by jseth

Well, first of all, welcome to the AGF!

Now, the indents... hmmm... I get them sometimes, but mostly when my hands are cold-ish. I have been playing for 50 years or so, but not as much lately as I have in the past. My callouses aren't all that tough right now, and I can feel it after 30 minutes or so...

So, I guess it's a second stage deal, although I think that after 3 months, your callouses have a ways to go... my best friend, a fellow songwriter, says that he doesn't even have callouses anymore, that the nerve endings in his fingertips are just DEAD and he doesn't even feel a thing, regarding fretting the guitar!

You might just back off the practise a bit, not totally; give your fingertips a chance to "catch up" with the whole idea of playing the guitar!

Also, try to "feel" just the right amount of pressure you need to fret the notes; one thing that is common is to press down REALLY HARD, when a lighter touch will do nicely. Too heavy a fretting hand may be contributing to your pain...

Again, welcome to the Forum... look forward to seeing you around the halls...

play on...................................>

John

Thank you for the warm welcome and the response!

Alright, I'll try my best to keep my love for the sound out of the picture for a little bit, hehe. I understand what you mean about the heavy fretting, I do believe I do that as I think "if I don't it'll sound all 'vibratey' and really bad."

[Masao]

Welcome to AGF.

I think it is great you are so committed to playing and practicing. But i think with anything there is such a thing as too much as well as too little.

Sounds to me like you need to build in some rest time for your fingers. Perhaps you could do some practicing rhythms and beats without fingering chords (use a metronome). Perhaps you could work on understanding the fretboard and the notes. Or perhaps you could practice changing fingering at tempo without pressing down to check on your finger transitions and right hand (strum, pick, etc). What i am suggesting is that you could still do things that go towards your guitar playing without using your fingers.

But what do i know ... decades ago when i started i could not stop practicing every day for hours .


Ken

[HHP]

Have you changed anything from when you started?

[razorfish]

Originally Posted by ToADM

I had no idea where to put this, lol.. but uhm, I started playing acoustically back in septemberish, and blahblahblah, I developed calluses and playing stopped hurting up until about 3 days ago I got some major like, indents in my fingers and it hurts worse to play than ever. I haven't stopped playing, I've played everyday since I began. I just learned my first full song and I want to play it for my family but it hurts to much.. So I guess what I'm asking is:
What the heck? I thought all I needed to do was develop calluses once and keep playing everyday. Are the indents and pain a second-stage type deal? Or is there something wrong here?

Completely normal... It sounds like you may have overdone it a bit, so a few days of rest may be needed, but it's probably not anything serious.

I've found that when I learning new things, I tend to use more fretting pressure than is needed. After a few months of playing this song you have learned, you will notice you're using much less pressure.

Give it a few more months. Rest when needed, but keep on going.

Your calluses will need a full year to fully develop. There's more to it than just the calluses as you're entire fretting fingertips will develop. Also, you'll notice there will be some finger strains and pains as you learn new stuff. It's all part of the journey.

Play on!

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by razorfish

Completely normal... It sounds like you may have overdone it a bit, so a few days of rest may be needed, but it's probably not anything serious.

I've found that when I learning new things, I tend to use more fretting pressure than is needed. After a few months of playing this song you have learned, you will notice you're using much less pressure.

Give it a few more months. Rest when needed, but keep on going.

Your calluses will need a full year to fully develop. There's more to it than just the calluses as you're entire fretting fingertips will develop. Also, you'll notice there will be some finger strains and pains as you learn new stuff. It's all part of the journey.

Play on!

What s/he said...Keep playing. It WILL pass.

[bluesbassdad]

See my post (#5) in this thread.

Has anyone mentioned set-up yet? I've not experienced this, but I would guess that if the action is way too high, then much more callus would be needed before the discomfort started to subside.

[cotten]

Another warm AGF welcome, ToADM. Glad to have you in the acoustic guitar playing universe, and here among the best group of acoustic guitar fans in the universe!

I'm moved your question here from Open Mic because your question is definitely one that we've all had to come to grips with. Sorry, poor choice of words. The helpful replies you're already receiving will no doubt help a lot of other beginners, too. Here are a few things I often recommend to beginners.

1. Yes, by all means have your guitar's action "set up," that is, adjusted so that it plays relatively easily, with the strings not too far from the fretboard.
2. Check the way you're holding the guitar. I think it's easiest for most beginners to keep the neck relatively high, so that your wrist is beneath it. This allows your fingers to easily be perpendicular to the frets, rather than from the side, which helps avoid dull thuds and buzzes.
3. Check your finger position. You want it very close to the fret but not on top of it. If you're too far back, you have to squeeze harder than necessary to get a good, clean sound.
4. If you are holding the guitar right and your fingers are in the right position and the guitar is well set up, be careful not to use more pressure than necessary. A death grip squeeze will not improve your tone, but it can increase the tenderness of your fingertips.
5. When you're first starting, I recommend short, frequent practice sessions, rather than one long one. That allows your fingers to recover a bit, and it reinforces the skill, knowledge and muscle memory you are trying to build better. At a music camp each summer, I often have beginners practice no more than 30 minutes at a time, two or three times a day. They learn more quickly, with less finger sensitivity, than if they had played for a couple of hours straight.

Stay with it. The tenderness fades after a while. But let me add this: if what you are feeling is not just "tenderness" but true pain, stop for a few days. You may have gone overboard in your eagerness to learn and really injured your fingertip tissues. If so, give you fingers a chance to heal. Oh, you can still hold your guitar and put your fingers into the right places, just don't press down. You'll still be making some progress, though this takes more discipline because it's not as much fun as making real music.

Hope you'll stick around, both with the guitar and with this community. You can already see you're among friends here!

cotten

[Kerbie]

Well, that doesn't sound like any fun, does it? I've been playing a long time and haven't experienced that. I agree that the set-up may be the most likely culprit. I tend to like low action... the farther the strings are from the fretboard, the harder it is to hold them down.

You might also try some really "soft" strings like silk and steel. They don't produce quite the same volume as bronze, but they are much more gentle on your fingers.

I agree with Cotten, if it's truly painful, I'd stop for a while. But, I certainly don't think your experiences are the norm and I would expect the pain to slowly subside. Good luck!

[jeepnstein]

If you are experiencing that much pain I'd look at the guitar as the culprit. A setup is probably in order. Changing strings may not be enough.

[Fatstrat]

As a lifelong blue collar worker, I experience "seasonal" hand/finger problems. My hands are exposed to the elements and I have to take care of them differently in different seasons. Particularly in winter. In winter I have to let my fingernails grow a bit longer than I like, or my fingers will develop splits from the edge of the nail down the tip. And I get painful hangnails. So I do lots of moisturizing in winter.
The thing is, other things you do w/your hands can have an effect. Something to think about.

[ghale]

I have went through the same. It's better, then worse, then better still. I used to take my shower at night and immediately start playing. Same with doing dishes. My tips would get really raw and painful. Since my fingers were soft and what calluses I had would peel right off. Now I make sure that my hands are completely dry, and my calluses aren't "mushy" before I start to play. I've also noticed that if I've been playing for more than an hour, or if the room is hot, my hands get sweaty and it does the same thing. So now I keep a towel handy as well. Dry fingers help me.

[mackdaddie]

Originally Posted by ToADM

I had no idea where to put this, lol.. but uhm, I started playing acoustically back in septemberish, and blahblahblah, I developed calluses and playing stopped hurting up until about 3 days ago I got some major like, indents in my fingers and it hurts worse to play than ever. I haven't stopped playing, I've played everyday since I began. I just learned my first full song and I want to play it for my family but it hurts to much.. So I guess what I'm asking is:
What the heck? I thought all I needed to do was develop calluses once and keep playing everyday. Are the indents and pain a second-stage type deal? Or is there something wrong here?

Most of us have had the same issue. It's common, so don't fret too much(gotta love bad guitar humor).

You're likely pressing too hard, so, when you begin daily, work through the big fifteen just plucking and strumming the chords. While you do it, think about these two things.

One, apply only enough pressure to make the chord ring, do this by slowly lightening your pressure on the strings.

Two, make sure your fret hand is in no way supporting the weight of the guitar.

This little exercise helped with my finger and hand pain, and improved my speed switching between chords overnight.

[Dr. J]

Hi all, this is Dr. J

If you would like to learn more about callus formation from a dermatologic point of view, please click on the following link:

http://www.guitarhands.com/science.htm