Acoustic Modified to Amplify

[k_russell]

I am still shopping for my first archtop.

Do builders modify the structure of the guitar when they intend to add a pickup for amplification? I have played a couple of the more moderatley priced models (Godin. Loar, and Gretsch) that offer an acoustic and amplified version of what appears to be the same guitar.

For example: is the Gretsch g9555 just a g9550 with a pickup attached? When I play them, I notice a difference in sound. Since the shops have just one model of each to try, I'm not sure if it's just typical variation from guitar to guitar.

I ask because I am exploring the idea of buying an acoustic model and adding a pickup later if I think I might need one. This will expand my options a bit. I have come across some used models without pickups that I like.

[Uke Richard]

Don't forget that there is also the possibility of putting a floating pickup without cutting a hole in the top.

[Steve DeRosa]

If you're dealing with the Loar models with suspended pickups (the ones with the Florentine cutaway) I strongly doubt it, and I'm almost totally certain there's no difference in the Gretsch New Yorkers other than the added pickup. As far as the Godin is concerned they're supposedly braced a bit more heavily than the all-acoustic models, if only to support the added hardware; while I've never examined the single-pickup/non-cut Kingpin that closely, as the owner of both an acoustic 5th Avenue and a CW II I'd tend to agree. You're more likely to find the difference in carved-top guitars with built-in pickups like the L-5CES and Super 400 CES - at one time Gibson was even fitting them with laminated backs/sides - and some rare D'Angelicos that were built from the get-go with DeArmond pickups, than at the lower end of the spectrum...

[Spook]

Floating pickup requires no modification to the guitar. These can be mounted off a pickguard or off the neck. I'm in the camp that believes you diminish the acoustic sound of the guitar too much when you start cutting holes in the top for pickups.

[Silly Moustache]

The term "archtop" can mean many differnt things to differnt people.

look up "archtop guitar" on wikipedia and you'll see a whole bunch of images of electric guitars.

A true archtop has a carved top and back for playing acoustically.

To amplify a proper acoustic archtop - you need to fit a floating pick-up to the end of the fret-board extension so it doesn't touch the top.

So called "archtops" with pick-ups screwed into the top are not realacoustics as they need to have big planks under the top to hold the pick-ups and to stop the top from vibrating.

They are really just "hollowbodied" electric guitars.



i

[k_russell]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

The term "archtop" can mean many differnt things to differnt people.

look up "archtop guitar" on wikipedia and you'll see a whole bunch of images of electric guitars.

A true archtop has a carved top and back for playing acoustically.

To amplify a proper acoustic archtop - you need to fit a floating pick-up to the end of the fret-board extension so it doesn't touch the top.

So called "archtops" with pick-ups screwed into the top are not realacoustics as they need to have big planks under the top to hold the pick-ups and to stop the top from vibrating.

They are really just "hollowbodied" electric guitars.



i

That's how I think about it. I prefer not to have the pickup or the control knobs attached to the sound board. I want the sound of the archtop guitar amplified. To my ears that is a different sound than a hollow bodied electric guitar.

One company (perhaps more) sell floating pickups that are integrated into the pick guard. Although the idea appears interesting, my challenge would be to find a technician with experience in installing such an accessory.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by k_russell

...One company (perhaps more) sells floating pickups that are integrated into the pickguard. Although the idea appears interesting, my challenge would be to find a technician with experience in installing such an accessory.

Good (and cheap) news - you're it! As long as the pickup(s)/controls are mounted on the pickguard it's usually a simple mater of replacing the one you have - a 15-minute job at most, and one that many players did themselves back in the day. The only problem you might encounter is induced hum if the rig isn't properly grounded (one of the hidden virtues of the old "monkey-on-a-stick" DeArmonds); assuming you have a metal tailpiece, the quick and easy solution is to remove the strings and tailpiece, drill a small hole underneath the tailpiece through the end block, pass a plain wire through the hole (making sure to leave enough slack so that it makes contact with the tailpiece), solder the opposite end to the "sleeve" contact on the output jack, remount the tailpiece/reposition the bridge, and restring your guitar - a couple hours' work, but not too difficult and well worth the time...

[Digits_Only]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

So called "archtops" with pick-ups screwed into the top are not realacoustics as they need to have big planks under the top to hold the pick-ups and to stop the top from vibrating.

I wouldn't go that far. My Eastman AR371's laminated top definitely vibrates, even when played acoustically. I can rest my pinkie on the top and feel it vibrating with every note.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Digits_Only

I wouldn't go that far. My Eastman AR371's laminated top definitely vibrates, even when played acoustically. I can rest my pinkie on the top and feel it vibrating with every note.

Yes, Im sure you are right, but it won't sound like a carved top acoustic.

I have an AR805-e fully acoustic carved top but with floating p/up.and a remarkably good '64 Harmony Monterrey - which as a pressed top. It rings and plays well, but it isn't like my Eastman

BTW folks my Eastman is on sale wasted on me - see the classifieds.

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by k_russell

I am still shopping for my first archtop.

Do builders modify the structure of the guitar when they intend to add a pickup for amplification?

I certainly can't speak for all brands or builders but I do have an anecdote that is relevant.

I have a couple of guitars from one of the best one man shop / archtop builders in the world. The first one I specified as wanting the best possible acoustic sound for my style of guitar. The builder took that into account and it is my number one player, and an extraordinary acoustic guitar. The second guitar he built for me, I knew that I would want a floating PU and would be playing it at my gigs. We ended up describing it as the "the guitar that D'Angelico would of built for Johnny Smith in the 50's, but with Jimmy D'Aquisto 70's / 80's style." It has a floating Lollar JS PU. It also came out perfect and is my main gigging guitar.

To my uneducated eye, the visible differences are the mass of the bridge and the size of it's footprint, the carve of the top, and the placement and size of the braces. But I know for sure I would never attempt to turn those small differences into a formula for acoustic or electric tone.

Both of these guitars are fully acoustic archtops, but they sound really different. The builder's observation is that D'Angelico's later guitars, the ones he knew would likely be amplified with a floating PU, sound quite different acoustically than his earlier guitars. They are not nearly as loud, and the quality of the high overtones are different. He brought this wisdom to bear on building my guitars.

All the posts above are correct that you can slap a floating PU on a carved top guitar and it will sound really good. However, it is still my view that in the upper reaches of archtops, the guitars that are optimized for electric tone are not the same as guitars optimized for acoustic tone. In practice I guess this just means that you should try before you buy as much as possible. For me, working with a skilled luthier, it meant that we spent a lot of time talking about what I wanted, what music I like, what music I play, what guitars have moved me the most, etc., and also a little time playing together over various guitars. I feel pretty lucky that we had the time and relationship that allowed all that, and that yielded my two favorite guitars.

Good luck on your archtop journey!