NFL Draft

[sled]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Passing up on Wentz last year (Hugh Jackson's input from what I hear) has put them in a tricky situation wrt the QB position. I hope they don't reach. They need to get in the habit of drafting smart and with discipline. To me there are no sure bets at QB this year. I hope they wait or don't burn a pick until later. Chances seem low anyone in the QB draft this year is going to be a full-time starter.

Seems like Osweiler should get them through until they find someone they really like. Wishing them luck.

Hue Jackson wants AJ McCarron from the Bengals. His only problem is the Bengals want a First round PLUS for McCarron. But, Jackson has worked with him before so it could happen....

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by sled

Malik Hooker will be a top safety in the league. John Ross set the new record for the 40 at the combine. If he can hold up form his ACL repair, he will be a top WR. There are no good Olinemen in the draft.

I agree regarding Hooker.

Ross is fast, to be sure, but speed is the most over-rated attribute of an NFL receiver. He is a number 2 at best. He is injury-prone. He ran a simplistic route tree with a high percentage of bubble screens and other uncontested routes. He is small with a lean frame, and has suspect hands with too many drops (particularly given the number of uncontested catches he made). But, it is super easy to pick apart nearly any prospect. Very few modern receivers are NFL ready, and if Ross is given the chance to develop, he could be a Ted Ginn Jr. type of receiver, but he isn't even that gifted as a returner, so it is hard to see a team giving him time to develop as a receiver.

Edit... I took another look at his stats, he actually is a pretty good Kickoff Returner. That might buy him some time to develop as an all around receiver.

This is a terrible draft for O-Linemen.

[Jim_G]

I don't pay too much attention to the NFL draft. One, I don't watch College FB at all, so the prospects mean nothing to me. And this season the Patriots didn't have a pick in the first 2 rounds, so all the more reason to ignore it.

However, I caught some of the highlights on the radio on the commute it. What exactly are the Bears thinking? They give up 3 draft picks to move up one position, to pick a QB that might have lasted another 10 picks? Do they realize that if he were picked that early, it was Cleveland that was to take him? We know how good Cleveland is when it comes to picking QB's.

Cleveland by the way, seems to have gotten it right, for the second year in a row. Might have to keep an eye on them. Maybe not so much this year, but it would surprise me if they start winning, albeit on a modest level, in the next 2 or 3 years.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Jim_G

I don't pay too much attention to the NFL draft. One, I don't watch College FB at all, so the prospects mean nothing to me. And this season the Patriots didn't have a pick in the first 2 rounds, so all the more reason to ignore it.

However, I caught some of the highlights on the radio on the commute it. What exactly are the Bears thinking? They give up 3 draft picks to move up one position, to pick a QB that might have lasted another 10 picks? Do they realize that if he were picked that early, it was Cleveland that was to take him? We know how good Cleveland is when it comes to picking QB's.

Cleveland by the way, seems to have gotten it right, for the second year in a row. Might have to keep an eye on them. Maybe not so much this year, but it would surprise me if they start winning, albeit on a modest level, in the next 2 or 3 years.

Agree on all counts, good post. Except not watching college football. You clearly don't have enough time to waste on Saturdays.

John Lynch (49ers rookie GM) seems to be the big winner from yesterday. Picked up a 3rd and 5th rounder this year and a 3rd next year for moving one spot, and got the guy they were going to pick anyway. Amazing. I guess all that talk about how good he thought the QB class was this year paid off. Also picked up Rueben Foster at 31, a guy most thought was a top 10 talent. They can miss on everyone else and have a great draft. Good for them.

Raiders gamble on a guy with potentially serious issues and pass on a need position at inside linebacker. Could be a great pick, the CB has a ton of talent, and I tend to think they know what they're doing, but risky. Hoping for good things today, and we pick up a stud linebacker and a run-stuffing defensive tackle.

[Jim_G]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Agree on all counts, good post. Except not watching college football. You clearly don't have enough time to waste on Saturdays.

I'm not alone, New England in general just isn't into the College game. We have 2 D1 programs. One of them is new to the game and happens to be my alma mater, UMass. I cringe at their effort to move up. It came too late and it's too costly, I wish they gave it up.

The other is Boston College, and they play in a stadium that a Texas High School would be embarrassed to be seen in, in front of a paltry crowd.

It's true for all the sports. Hockey is the closest thing to having rabid base, but it's a much smaller scale. They fill the arenas, but it only takes 2-3K to do that.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Agree on all counts, good post. Except not watching college football. You clearly don't have enough time to waste on Saturdays.

John Lynch (49ers rookie GM) seems to be the big winner from yesterday. Picked up a 3rd and 5th rounder this year and a 3rd next year for moving one spot, and got the guy they were going to pick anyway. Amazing. I guess all that talk about how good he thought the QB class was this year paid off. Also picked up Rueben Foster at 31, a guy most thought was a top 10 talent. They can miss on everyone else and have a great draft. Good for them.

Raiders gamble on a guy with potentially serious issues and pass on a need position at inside linebacker. Could be a great pick, the CB has a ton of talent, and I tend to think they know what they're doing, but risky. Hoping for good things today, and we pick up a stud linebacker and a run-stuffing defensive tackle.

Foster was the ILB I was talking about when I said the five best players in the draft were 2 Safties (Hooker and Adams), 2 D-Linemen (Garrett and Allen) and an ILB (Foster). Maybe I'm right, maybe I'll be proven wrong, who knows.

The Raiders taking Conley shouldn't surprise anyone, but boy is it a boom bust pick, assuming he ever gets on the field. Innocent until proven guilty, sure, but man, between the PR nightmare to come and the fact that there were a ton of good Corners in the draft, I just don't see it. It is almost like the the Raiders just can't help themselves. They have a primal need to make waves in the draft.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Foster was the ILB I was talking about when I said the five best players in the draft were 2 Safties (Hooker and Adams), 2 D-Linemen (Garrett and Allen) and an ILB (Foster). Maybe I'm right, maybe I'll be proven wrong, who knows.

The Raiders taking Conley shouldn't surprise anyone, but boy is it a boom bust pick, assuming he ever gets on the field. Innocent until proven guilty, sure, but man, between the PR nightmare to come and the fact that there were a ton of good Corners in the draft, I just don't see it. It is almost like the the Raiders just can't help themselves. They have a primal need to make waves in the draft.

I totally disagree about the Raider approach. That has fundamentally changed since the passing of Al Davis, and has not been their MO since Reggie got there. This isn't a splash, it's a high-risk pick, but sounds like they are confident this allegation doesn't hold water. We'll see. But the Raider approach is not that of Al Davis and I think it's a myth that this mindset persists to this day.

[sled]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

I agree regarding Hooker.

Ross is fast, to be sure, but speed is the most over-rated attribute of an NFL receiver. He is a number 2 at best. He is injury-prone. He ran a simplistic route tree with a high percentage of bubble screens and other uncontested routes. He is small with a lean frame, and has suspect hands with too many drops (particularly given the number of uncontested catches he made). But, it is super easy to pick apart nearly any prospect. Very few modern receivers are NFL ready, and if Ross is given the chance to develop, he could be a Ted Ginn Jr. type of receiver, but he isn't even that gifted as a returner, so it is hard to see a team giving him time to develop as a receiver.

Edit... I took another look at his stats, he actually is a pretty good Kickoff Returner. That might buy him some time to develop as an all around receiver.

This is a terrible draft for O-Linemen.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/dra...wr-washington/

Quote:
What he does best:

- He has incredible game speed, can blow right by a corner even when they’re playing 10 yards off.
- Quick in and out of breaks, doesn’t set them up or give them away.
- Can beat press coverage with release speed as well as use of hands.
- Incredible footwork. Sets up a lot of double moves and fakes using his feet, has made more than a few defenders look silly this way.
- Catches with his hands, and is very strong with the ball. Dropped only six of 105 catchable passes the last two years.
- Great vision with the ball in his hands, can find open space and turn a nothing play into a big gain with his ability after the catch.
- Runs a variety of routes, doesn’t just run straight downfield every play. Has one of the best slant routes in college football.
- Great ability to track the ball in the air and adjust his route accordingly. Can catch over the shoulder without breaking stride.
- Adds an extra skill in his ability to return kicks.
- Willing blocker, will take on corner and try to seal him out of play.

Biggest concern:

- Smaller receiver that can be pushed around a bit. While he can beat press coverage, there were times where it threw him off his route.
- Doesn’t have the strength to box out corners in tight situations. Can be muscled at catch point.
- Won’t win a lot of 50/50 jump balls.
- Injury history brings some concerns. He tore his MCL in the 2014 season, then missed the entire 2015 season with a torn ACL.
- Player comparison: DeSean Jackson, Washington Redskins.

This is a fairly easy comparison with both players being similar in size but still being phenomenal deep threats because of their speed. Both use that to their advantage, as corners are forced to play off them to respect that speed. And like Jackson, Ross is an electric returner on special teams.

Bottom line: If teams look past Ross’ small stature, they’ll be getting a special receiver. While his speed is obviously his biggest asset, it’s not all Ross has. He knows how to get open using his footwork and can beat press coverage off the line with both his feet and his hands. He catches the ball consistently and once it’s in his hands, there’s very few better at seeing the field and finding open space. Ross can line up all over the field and make plays. Couple all of that with his return abilities and Ross has the potential to be one of if not the most exciting receiver to come out of this draft.

His knee injuries happened while he is young, and he says they feel better and he is faster after the repairs. I'm good with the pick, as any player getting hurt is a gamble....

[posternutbag]

Step away from the pre-draft magazines and re-watch the Colorado game.

No, seriously, he has good highlights, but you just watch that tape and go, "Where is the high safety help?" If this guy can tear the top off a defense, you wouldn't know it because there was no top high safety help on at least half those deep balls.

Look a ceiling of DeSean Jackson and a floor of Ted Ginn Jr. would be a nice career. He is a classic second or third WR. Having A.J. Green as your #1 will help. That will mean a lot of defenses with no high safety help because the FS will be doubling Green. I like the kid. I hope it works out, but there is a lot off boom/bust potential here, as there is with just about every college WR.

[AX17609]

70,000 people show up to watch the draft?!

[sled]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Step away from the pre-draft magazines and re-watch the Colorado game.

No, seriously, he has good highlights, but you just watch that tape and go, "Where is the high safety help?" If this guy can tear the top off a defense, you wouldn't know it because there was no top high safety help on at least half those deep balls.

Look a ceiling of DeSean Jackson and a floor of Ted Ginn Jr. would be a nice career. He is a classic second or third WR. Having A.J. Green as your #1 will help. That will mean a lot of defenses with no high safety help because the FS will be doubling Green. I like the kid. I hope it works out, but there is a lot off boom/bust potential here, as there is with just about every college WR.

Yep, that's all true. But, he wasn't drafted to be #1, he's drafted to stretch the field and take some heat off of AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, Tyler Eifert, and Jeremy Hill (or should I say Joe Mixon)

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by Jim_G

What exactly are the Bears thinking? They give up 3 draft picks to move up one position, to pick a QB that might have lasted another 10 picks?

I think the Bears have a death wish.

[Rodger]

Now that the draft is over... a few thoughts about the Browns.

I am quite happy with the draft picks, Brantley notwithstanding. Added to the D lineman they drafted last year, I think they are building an excellent defense.

I think besides having one of the better drafts on paper, they had a big influence on the draft overall. I think the Bears were afraid the Browns were going to make a trade with S.F. to get Trabisky, and then traded way too much to get him. I think the Chiefs were afraid the Browns were going to pick Mahomes with the 12th pick and moved up to #10 to get him.

It would be funny if the Notre Dame QB they picked in the 3rd round ended up being better than all of them.

Once again, this is just "on paper." It often takes 3 years to judge the value of a draft. But, at this point I think they did well.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Rodger

Now that the draft is over... a few thoughts about the Browns.

I am quite happy with the draft picks, Brantley notwithstanding. Added to the D lineman they drafted last year, I think they are building an excellent defense.

I think besides having one of the better drafts on paper, they had a big influence on the draft overall. I think the Bears were afraid the Browns were going to make a trade with S.F. to get Trabisky, and then traded way too much to get him. I think the Chiefs were afraid the Browns were going to pick Mahomes with the 12th pick and moved up to #10 to get him.

It would be funny if the Notre Dame QB they picked in the 3rd round ended up being better than all of them.

Once again, this is just "on paper." It often takes 3 years to judge the value of a draft. But, at this point I think they did well.

Agree–at the very least you gotta be happy they're not chasing their tails and just drafting great players. At some point that's all going to come together.

[sled]

I thought the Bengals had a good draft as well. They picked speedster Ross first, Joe Mixon 2nd. Mixon has baggage from one incident when he was 17 where he punched a girl that shoved him and reportedly called him a racial epitaph. Many people do not think he ever deserves a 2nd chance at life, I disagree. He apologized, paid her a settlement, and they are reportedly good with each other, so I think he deserves a 2nd chance. Not to mention, he is the best running back in the draft and this cost him millions dropping into the 2nd round. They also picked up two Defensive Ends, both of which were in "The top 15 steals of the draft". Picked up a couple of other pieces here and there and a kicker. They also signed UDFA Boom Williams out of Kentucky, who may replace Bernard early in the season if Gio's knee is not 100%. Bengals got better this year, especially when you note that last years tops picks, CB William Jackson III and DT Andrew Billings, who were hurt in training camp and did not play at all, are healthy and back and raring to go....