Dual use amps for acoustic/electric and electric guitars

[martingitdave]

There have been a number of threads recently asking about options for amplifying both acoustic guitars and electric guitars for stage or home use.

For the purpose of this thread, lets set aside discussion of the personal or mid sized full range PA systems. There are many ways to accomplish this with with a PA. Most include some sort of acoustic guitar preamp/DI system and an amp/guitar effects modeling pedal board into a mixer to one or more powered speakers. Some PA speakers, like the Line 6 L2t even include the mixer, vocal and acoustic effects. The "pod" is still required to model guitar amps and effects.

Some examples of the pods, or modeling boards are:

1. Line 6 products like the Pod, Firehawk FX

2. Tech21 Flyrig

That said, I've been considering options for what to bring when I'm playing guitar and singing in the band, with someone else controlling sound. In these instances, I'd prefer to Mic my amp rather than going DI straight to the house. You get the benefit of controlling the sound and having the amp serve as a monitor.

This application requires condensing some of the aforementioned PA equipment into a smaller portable package.

For instance, the distinction between Acoustic instrument amplifiers and small personal portable PA systems continues to become blurred. Offerings from Carvin, Line 6, JBL, Mackie, Schertler, Acus, etc. are useful as small PA replacements, and can be combined with electric guitar amp modelers, for all around use. I won't cover all of these because the multi channel acoustic amp/ PA replacements are very similar and do the same things. I'll cover a few that might have something extra to consider.

Otherwise, it requires the use of a speciality full frequency guitar amp for acoustic and electric guitars with all the modeling built in. Here are some of the guitar specific options I've come across that are small, lightweight, and some that are even relatively inexpensive. I've not used all of them, but they appear to have similar feature sets.

1. Line 6 L2t or L3t: perfect for acoustic guitar and vocals, or as stand alone PA systems. Can be used successfully with a pod or effects system (I use the Line 6 Firehawk FX) for electric guitar. $800 and up, plus electric guitar pedal board. I consider this distinct from the acoustic / PA products because this unit includes DSP that configures the speaker for electric guitar use. Therefore a modeler is not absolutely necessary - think Peavey solid state amp. You could, in theory, use a standard pedal board with a single amp model pedal. Although, many electric players will probably want the sophisticated tube models from a digital amp modeler. It is also physically configurable for use on the floor as a monitor or main, as well as a pole. It is also powerful enough to be used with some bass instruments.

2. Line 6 Spider V 60, 120, etc: this is a newer product that offers the same acoustic guitar modeling as the L2t, but adds electric guitar amp modeling and effects, all contained in one box. A sophisticated pedal board can be added to provide foot control of the built in amp models, effects, and instrument models. A wireless system is built into the amp. $300 and up, plus pedal board extension. For a gigging/session guitarist, with no need for vocals, this could be a great companion.

3. Peavey Vypyr VIP 1, 2, 3, etc: this is a nifty new 20 to 100 watt 12" full range speaker/ amp product that adds a third capability. It will serve as a bass amp, acoustic amp, and electric guitar amp, replete with amp models, stop box effects, and various electric guitar powered acoustic instrument models. $200 and up plus pedal board extension. For the money, this looks to be the best value and similar in features to the Line 6 Spider. However, it uses a single speaker "tuned" for full range use. I have no idea how this actually sounds in use. This may be a good low cost option for home studio use. However, it is the ONLY all in one solution that includes all the modeling and effects needed for acoustic, electric, and bass guitar. So, if you've got only $300 to spend on all things guitar amp related, give it a try. Peavey has been used for decades by musicians looking for quality and value. If you also need XLR inputs for vocals, consider the mini PA options with an electric amp/effects molder.

4. Fender Acoustisonic 150: this is recommended by a poster below. A quick review details a very nicely spec'ed small (2) 8" plus tweeter 150 watt amplifier. The onboard modeling (voicing) includes models for iconic acoustic guitars to improve the tone of pickups, and electric guitar amplifier models, to simulate electric guitar amps. Also included is a vocal channel. This seems like a nice package for folks who want the features listed above, but also need to song through the amp. $500 seems to do it all.

5. Boss Katana: this series of electric guitar modeling amplifiers also offers nice acoustic guitar modeling features. Online reviews indicate it would be a good solution for the electric guitarist who also gigs with an acoustic. This appears to be very similar in function to the Line 6 and Peavey units. These range from $200 (50 watt) to $500 (100 watt 2-12") plus foot switches for the onboard modeling.

6. Henriksen The Bud: more to come...

Acoustic Amp / PA considerations. Like all full range PA products, these options are not marketed as electric guitar specific solutions. All require electric amp and effects modeling. However, these options have some special features worth mentioning, and might be worth investing in a modeler.

1. Carvin AG300: while not marketed to users as an electric guitar solution, this full range amp is well regarded for clean (uncolored) acoustic tone and ample bass instrument performance. The 12" speaker and class D amplifier provide enough oomph on the low end. With the addition of an electric guitar/amp/effects modeler, like the Firehawk FX I use, this would be a good solution for the multi-instrumentalist because you can route everything through the onboard mixer, including a high Z input for the bass guitar directly. This can be considered a portable PA in a box. $500 plus pedal board.

2. Shertler Unico: one of the most expensive acoustic oriented solutions, this unit provides 5 channels, a 10" woofer and tweeter and a lot of power for a small box. This unit is also marketed by Shertler as a good crossover electric amplifier. As per above, you'll need your own electric guitar/amp/effects modeler to get the full benefit. However, if you're a jazz player, they indicate the amp is perfectly voiced for your electric jazz box. $1,000 plus pedal board.

What about Battery Power for the buskers?

1. Mackie Freeplay: the Mackie unit is marketed as a mini personal PA in a box. It was hyped upon launch a few years ago and promptly forgotten. However, at least one AGF member uses this unit with multi instruments (acoustic guitar, resonator, ukulele, mandolin, and electric guitar.) With an 8" woofer and two small tweeters, the 150 watt RMS unit includes all the FX found in the popular small form Mackie FX mixers. Therefore, the addition on an electric guitar/amp/effects modeler would make this a competent flexible option. Listening to a few reviews of his unit, it appears the bottom end for Acoustic instruments is sufficient. I'm not sure it should be considered for bass instruments, however. The whole 11 lb thing is controlled by an iPhone app. Additional features like Bluetooth and battery operation are included. It can be pole mounted or 45 deg titled with the optional stand. The AGF member notes that QC on these units might be a bit poor, as he's been through three. But, at $300 or less it seems like a great singer/songwriter unit that can serve multi instrumentalists.

2. Roland Street Cubes: more to come...



Please feel free to add your own suggestions. I'll try and keep this list updated.


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[LSemmens]

Thank you for this, I have just been considering just this. I occasionally play Bass, Electric and Acoustic at Church and, rather than have a separate Amp for each situation would rather have a "one size fits all" solution. Recently I managed to blow up my Acoustic amp because I was too lazy to bring my Bass amp in to play a service. I now have to play everything through the Bass amp, which works, sort of. If I can set up a small powered mixer, that can cope with my Bass and Acoustic it might be a better arrangement than a different Amp for each setting.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by LSemmens

Thank you for this, I have just been considering just this. I occasionally play Bass, Electric and Acoustic at Church and, rather than have a separate Amp for each situation would rather have a "one size fits all" solution. Recently I managed to blow up my Acoustic amp because I was too lazy to bring my Bass amp in to play a service. I now have to play everything through the Bass amp, which works, sort of. If I can set up a small powered mixer, that can cope with my Bass and Acoustic it might be a better arrangement than a different Amp for each setting.

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your acoustic amp misfortune. I suspected there might be a few people out there who are juggling a few instruments and need a multi purpose instrument amp. I added two amps above you might consider. However, if you switch between all three in one service, you might need to consider a small PA solution like some mentioned above. I fear that once you introduce a mixer, you've entered new territory, and added a lot of stuff to carry. If you want to stick to an inexpensive amp, since vocals are handled by the church PA, I'd be tempted to investigate the Peavey solution for your application.


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[akafloyd]

I have The Bud by Henriksen but I've only played my acoustics through it. The reports I've read say that it works well with electric guitars and even basses, both guitars and upright.

[CASD57]

I really think you should focus on the need for vocals included in this more...
Which would Eliminate the Peaveys...
I guess you could try to use a small mixer with one but ???

Ideal amp..... Vocals, Elec/Acous Guitars and Bass
Which only the Fender Acoustisonic 150 would do it/ designed for it..(Not sure about bass)

I really feel to get all three you'll need a Powered PA speaker a mixer, a pedal for the Acoustic like a TC Helicon Play Acoustic, Some kind of pedal for the Electric and Bass,,

If your a Busker, you'll like to have Battery powered

But if you want to experiment You might find that a Peavey might sound good with vocals... either by using a mixer or XLR to 1/4 adapter....
Heck a TCH Mic mechanic might do the trick....

Someone should try one of those Peaveys for Vocals...it does everything else

Skip the Peavey...only one Channel, if it had a two channels than you could of dedicated one to vocals with a processor and the other to which ever instr your playing...

[lschwart]

You left out the Boss Katana line of amps.

Louis

[CASD57]

Originally Posted by lschwart

You left out the Boss Katana line of amps.

Louis

Will they do Acoustic, Bass and Vocals
?

[billyg]

I would add to this list the Tech21 Flyrig. I don't gig much, but I try and be relatively self contained when I do. I purchased the Flyrig to provide improvements in my electric sound when using an acoustic amp. It does that. I am using a Crowdster +2 so I'm using the same guitar and rig to try and get both sounds.


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[CASD57]

Looks like the Roland Street Cubes with do Vocal-Electric and Acoustic guitars..but not Bass (Or bass well)

Not sure they would be loud enough even as a monitor in a live band setting..

Battery for Buskers....

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by CASD57

Will they do Acoustic, Bass and Vocals
?

I don't know about bass, and they don't do vocals, but they are designed for electric and have a well-reviewed acoustic setting/capability:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3QcQxlN4Z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0ihQpl-t7A

I have no experience with these myself, but they are similar to the other products under discussion.

Louis

[Tahitijack]

You left out the Fender Acoustasonic 150, which is designed for acoustic and electric guitars and has a separate mic channel with separate on board effects for each channel. Another solution is the Bose L1, which is pretty good but pricey depending on the options you choose.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Tahitijack

You left out the Fender Acoustasonic 150, which is designed for acoustic and electric guitars and has a separate mic channel with separate on board effects for each channel. Another solution is the Bose L1, which is pretty good but pricey depending on the options you choose.

Good one. I'll add it to the list.


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[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by CASD57

Looks like the Roland Street Cubes with do Vocal-Electric and Acoustic guitars..but not Bass (Or bass well)



Not sure they would be loud enough even as a monitor in a live band setting..



Battery for Buskers....

Added to the list.


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[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by akafloyd

I have The Bud by Henriksen but I've only played my acoustics through it. The reports I've read say that it works well with electric guitars and even basses, both guitars and upright.

Added to the list.


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[Steve DeRosa]

About 20 years ago I used to run all my instruments (6- and 12-string acoustic/electric, banjo, bass) through a (rented) Fender KXR-200 keyboard amp, and DI through the house if necessary. Still a good option BTW: enough power (200W)/headroom for any gig, 4-band EQ/'verb on all channels, full-range response (this one won't fart out your bass' E or low-B string), makes a good clean platform for a pedalboard/modeler, and used ones go for $175-250 depending on condition; only drawback IME is that it's kinda heavy (70+ lbs. as I recall) - that and the fact that I'm not getting any younger are the only things keeping me from sourcing one out now. If you can handle the weight, IMO one of these would be a better - and far cheaper - alternative to the Carvin AG300...