Exciting New PA Option: JBL EON ONE Pro

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by DavidE

I did not.

I experimented a little more today and hooked up the tiny Yamaha mixer. With the mic input adjusted properly, the channel volume at unity and the output at unity, I could get some ok volume from the JBL running at line level. Not what I'd need for all my gigs, but at least it didn't fart out and distort.

Then I set up the larger Mackie mixer side by side and ran into channel 2 at line level. I did have to goose the input gain on the mic a little but I got the same volume. It will do as a monitor and to fill some sound tonight. I'll add a powered speaker (EV or Alto) to get any additional volume I need.

Played with a friend last night through his Bose L1M2. I think I'm going to have to start carting mine around again.

I received my xlr to 1/4" adapters today and dangit they're TS 1/4", not TRS. I got confused since I was ordering some stereo cables at the same time. Looking at the manual, its says that channels 1 and 2 are mono so the 1/4" shouldn't be trs anyway and channels 3 and 4 are supposed to be a stereo pair, so I would assume they're not trs either. Anyone know for sure?

If I use these adapters to run from the XLR out of the mixer to inputs 1, 2, 3 or 4 at line level, will that get me any more volume out of the JBL I'm already packed up for tonight's gig so I can't experiment before I go.

A mono channel can use TRS

* Stereo: Two signal (L) and (R)
* Mono unbalanced (TS): One signal (L)
* Mono balanced (TRS): One signal (L) and another signal (-L)

Once a balanced signal comes into the mixer you get
(L +noise) and (-L +noise). Noise is the same for both since they both travelled in the same cable. Then the mixer substrat both

Mixer signal = (L +noise) - (-L +noise)
Mixer signal = L +noise +L -noise
Mixer signal = 2L

So you get twice more signal and no noise: that is to say +6dB gain.

However if your mixer is on the cheap with the resistor to ground you get

Mixer signal = (L +noise) - (0 +noise)
Mixer signal = L +noise +0 -noise
Mixer signal = L

So you don't get +6dB.

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

A mono channel can use TRS

* Stereo: Two signal (L) and (R)
* Mono unbalanced (TS): One signal (L)
* Mono balanced (TRS): One signal (L) and another signal (-L)

Once a balanced signal comes into the mixer you get
(L +noise) and (-L +noise). Noise is the same for both since they both travelled in the same cable. Then the mixer substrat both

Mixer signal = (L +noise) - (-L +noise)
Mixer signal = L +noise +L -noise
Mixer signal = 2L

So you get twice more signal and no noise: that is to say +6dB gain.

However if your mixer is on the cheap with the resistor to ground you get

Mixer signal = (L +noise) - (0 +noise)
Mixer signal = L +noise +0 -noise
Mixer signal = L

So you don't get +6dB.

So since I'm going xlr (don't remember if the big mackie is resistor to ground) to TS, I can't get the 6db? Has to be xlr to TRS and the mixer can't have the resistor to ground to get the 6db? And what if the inputs on the JBL (which is, itself a mixer) has only mono 1/4" so it isn't getting separate tip and ring signals?

[DavidE]

One more thing I noticed in my experiments today. If I push the mixer, run to the jbl on a line level setting on channel 1 or 2, it's quieter and sounds different than if I put the input on mic level and match the volume so it's the same as line level (which is noisier and sounds different). I prefer the sound of the input at line level. I did not check to see if the bass and treble controls still work when line level is used. I'll do that tonight, but I'd rather do my eq on the board.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by DavidE

One more thing I noticed in my experiments today. If I push the mixer, run to the jbl on a line level setting on channel 1 or 2, it's quieter and sounds different than if I put the input on mic level and match the volume so it's the same as line level (which is noisier and sounds different). I prefer the sound of the input at line level. I did not check to see if the bass and treble controls still work when line level is used. I'll do that tonight, but I'd rather do my eq on the board.

David, this is exactly right! That's why I use XLR out of the mixer to TRS into the JBL channels 3/4. You get the extra 6db (compared to unbalanced) of balanced signal into the JBL line and you can use the gain knob on channel 3/4 all the way up. It sounds more musical to me.

Your Mackie's TRS outs use ring to ground to make it balanced, but it's 6 dB less than the XLRs. Too quiet.

The error I made was buying a digital only mixer which makes changes a pain. To make the JBL more usable, I may sell the digital mixer and get an A&H 10.


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[DavidE]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

David, this is exactly right! That's why I use XLR out of the mixer to TRS into the JBL channels 3/4. You get the extra 6db (compared to unbalanced) of balanced signal into the JBL line and you can use the gain knob on channel 3/4 all the way up. It sounds more musical to me.

Your Mackie's TRS outs use ring to ground to make it balanced, but it's 6 dB less than the XLRs. Too quiet.

The error I made was buying a digital only mixer which makes changes a pain. To make the JBL more usable, I may sell the digital mixer and get an A&H 10.


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I guess I'll leave for the gig early and stop at Sam Ash or Guitar Center and grab a Hosa inline adapter if they have one.

[DavidE]

I picked up the correct adapter on the way to the gig. Got here early so I had plenty of time to set up. I compared the xlr into channel one at live level. Volume knob on the JBL cranked. Ran another xlr to the TRS converter into channel 3 volume knob cranked. At first I thought the volume levels were the same. Then I thought there might be slightly more volume into channel3. If there's a difference, it's not much. But I'll use channel3 tonight. I'm sending the other channel to an EV powered speaker in case we need more volume.

As long as we don't push the system where it sounds terrible it should be good.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by DavidE

I picked up the correct adapter on the way to the gig. Got here early so I had plenty of time to set up. I compared the xlr into channel one at live level. Volume knob on the JBL cranked. Ran another xlr to the TRS converter into channel 3 volume knob cranked. At first I thought the volume levels were the same. Then I thought there might be slightly more volume into channel3. If there's a difference, it's not much. But I'll use channel3 tonight. I'm sending the other channel to an EV powered speaker in case we need more volume.



As long as we don't push the system where it sounds terrible it should be good.

Good luck! I think there's more headroom into channel three. For some reason it doesn't clip as easily.

I found a Nook HD reader tablet under my bed. I had bought it for the kids for $75. I reset and updated it. I was able to upload the XAIR app for my mixer. Now I have a small dedicated device that mounts on the mic stand. Who knows, it if works, I might keep the XR12.


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[DavidE]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Good luck! I think there's more headroom into channel three. For some reason it doesn't clip as easily.

I found a Nook HD reader tablet under my bed. I had bought it for the kids for $75. I reset and updated it. I was able to upload the XAIR app for my mixer. Now I have a small dedicated device that mounts on the mic stand. Who knows, it if works, I might keep the XR12.


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Overall, I was pretty happy tonight. I realized at the end of the night that I had the master at noon. I did notice the limit light on during some louder times (my singer has a big voice), but overall it sounded good and the volume was decent. I did need the EV cooking to fill the big room. I still had room to go on the master volumes on the board as well so I was pretty satisfied.

I think we have house sound for most of our gigs over the next month, so the JBL will sleep a bit. Maybe I'll try it out with my Helix and electric guitars. Lol.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Overall, I was pretty happy tonight. I realized at the end of the night that I had the master at noon. I did notice the limit light on during some louder times (my singer has a big voice), but overall it sounded good and the volume was decent. I did need the EV cooking to fill the big room. I still had room to go on the master volumes on the board as well so I was pretty satisfied.



I think we have house sound for most of our gigs over the next month, so the JBL will sleep a bit. Maybe I'll try it out with my Helix and electric guitars. Lol.

Wow! I'm really happy that worked for you! After so much trial and error, and dissatisfaction, I figured you had given up on it.

I'm of the mind that the speakers, power amp, channels 3/4 and 5/6, along with Bluetooth, are just fine. And channels 1/2 are OK with certain direct inputs. But, the gain staging in channels 1 and 2 are not great and don't work well with my mixer (or your mixers, evidently.)

Moreover, mixer channels 1/2 without a mid cut, or sweepable mid, are not that useful for acoustic guitar unless you have a DI/EQ first, which might be necessary. So, if someone's gear happens to be a good fit for channels 1/2, they are a bit lucky.

And, none of the channels are really ideal for the direct High Z signal you get out of many guitars. I'm fortunate that the Trance Amulet is a low Z source. ES2, with its onboard controls and clean output, also works very well directly into channels 1/2 with the mic switch engaged. It happens to sound great and you can effectively get a mid cut directly on the guitar. If I had to gig every night, I wouldn't be playing my nice Martin. I'd probably be playing a lower series Taylor with ES2.

Last night, I did some rehearsal and experimenting with my JBL and XR12 mixer.

Everything sounds much better through the XR12. The Midas designed preamps and built in effects are clean as a whistle. So much, that I'm now hesitant to sell it and move to the analog mixer.

I thank an ideal digital mixer would have all of the EQ and setting done in the software, but would have a physical level knob next to each channel for quick level adjustments. I would pay extra for that. You could setup each input in advance, but do level set quickly by reaching over and turning a knob.

I finally got all of the settings working well. For some reason, the Android app works better than the iPad app. In the Android app, they have presets for guitar and voice that sound awesome! These never worked in the iPad app! And, with the iPad interface, a number of settings would not save after power off. They save in Android!

The iPad did not like staying connected to the antiquated network wifi in the mixer. It would drop it and go back to my Verizon cellular connection. Each time I had to go back to iPad settings, reconnect, and then force close and restart the mixer app!

The Android tablet is also ancient, and has no other capability, so it locks onto the mixer and doesn't drop.

Perhaps this cheap little dedicated android tablet is the band aid fix. I'm a little worried about battery life, so I'd probably have to leave it plugged in. It's just annoying to need another device.

In my town a new (beautiful) restaurant/sports bar/lounge opened up. We went for a family dinner last night. I talked to the owner about entertainment. He seems interested in my idea of getting an open mic started.

Who knows? Maybe I'll get some more use out of this thing.

Lastly, I tried the JBL with Line 6 Firehawk and electric guitar. It sounded good, but it's a little weird to have the highs and lows coming from different speakers, close up. You need to stand away from it. Ultimately, I recommend a small PA speaker (coaxial works best for me) or coaxial monitor. I bought the Mackie DLM8 and like it for this use. Although, like the JBL, the Mackie also really needs a mixer to boost Line gain for the instrument channel. Unfortunately, that channel has no mic preamp option. Doh!

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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Wow! I'm really happy that worked for you! After so much trial and error, and dissatisfaction, I figured you had given up on it.

I'm of the mind that the speakers, power amp, channels 3/4 and 5/6, along with Bluetooth, are just fine. And channels 1/2 are OK with certain direct inputs. But, the gain staging in channels 1 and 2 are not great and don't work well with my mixer (or your mixers, evidently.)

Moreover, mixer channels 1/2 without a mid cut, or sweepable mid, are not that useful for acoustic guitar unless you have a DI/EQ first, which might be necessary. So, if someone's gear happens to be a good fit for channels 1/2, they are a bit lucky.

And, none of the channels are really ideal for the direct High Z signal you get out of many guitars. I'm fortunate that the Trance Amulet is a low Z source. ES2, with its onboard controls and clean output, also works very well directly into channels 1/2 with the mic switch engaged. It happens to sound great and you can effectively get a mid cut directly on the guitar. If I had to gig every night, I wouldn't be playing my nice Martin. I'd probably be playing a lower series Taylor with ES2.

Last night, I did some rehearsal and experimenting with my JBL and XR12 mixer.

Everything sounds much better through the XR12. The Midas designed preamps and built in effects are clean as a whistle. So much, that I'm now hesitant to sell it and move to the analog mixer.

I finally got all of the settings working well. For some reason the Android app works better than the iPad app. In the Android app they have presets for guitar and voice that sound awesome! These never worked in the iPad app! And with the iPad interface, a number of settings would not save after power off. They save in Android! And the iPad, did not like staying connected to the antiquated network wifi in the mixer. It would drop it and go back to my Verizon cellular connection. The Android tablet is also ancient and has no other capability, so it locks onto the mixer and doesn't drop.

Perhaps this cheap little dedicated android tablet is the answer. I'm a little worried about battery life, so I'd probably have to leave it plugged in.

In my town a new (beautiful) restaurant/sports bar/lounge opened up. We went for a family dinner last night. I talked to the owner about entertainment. He seems interested in my idea of getting an open mic started.

Who knows? Maybe I'll get some more use out of this thing.

Lastly, I tried the JBL with Line 6 Firehawk and electric guitar. It sounded good, but it's a little weird to have the highs and lows coming from different speakers, close up. You need to stand away from it. Ultimately, I recommend a small PA speaker (coaxial works best for me) or coaxial monitor. I bought the Mackie DLM8 and like it for this use. Although, like the JBL, the Mackie also really needs a mixer to boost Line gain for the instrument channel. Unfortunately, that channel has no mic preamp option. Doh!

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The more I read this the less I am tempted to go to digital mixing+ JBL array.

* What happens if the cheap android tablet dies in a middle of a show or struggle to connect?

[Spoiling Alert: the following content may spoil futur posts from MartinGitDave]

* If you can hear like me the weirdness of the sound coming from two sources... You'll soon only focus on that. It's like a bad seed now planted deep into your mind... You'll listen to it without noticing... And one Day, you won't be able to cope with it and your GAS will speak again... And MartinGitDave's quest for portable PA will start again...

Devilishly
Cuki

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

The more I read this the less I am tempted to go to digital mixing+ JBL array.



* What happens if the cheap android tablet dies in a middle of a show or struggle to connect?



[Spoiling Alert: the following content may spoil futur posts from MartinGitDave]



* If you can hear like me the weirdness of the sound coming from two sources... You'll soon only focus on that. It's like a bad seed now planted deep into your mind... You'll listen to it without noticing... And one Day, you won't be able to cope with it and your GAS will speak again... And MartinGitDave's quest for portable PA will start again...



Devilishly

Cuki

Ha! You've got me there. The tablet solution for the digital mixer + JBL wouldn't be my first choice in the future.

I'd just pony up for the Bose L1S+T1, or maybe the new JBL One One Pro. I'll try the XR12 a few more times and decide if I sell it. However, there is some benefit to having the effects and preamps in that little box. You plug straight in and there are no floor pedals. And, it sounds good. I'm a bit relieved to know that this Android app actually works.

Alternatively, the JBL and the Play Acoustic sound good together. So, that is a solid backup plan. Best of all... no tablets!

This is not too inconvenient. And, the screen goes dark when not in use. I could live with it.



The mixer is about the right size to sit on top of the JBL box. I could also live with this.





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[Cuki79]

I think you should gig the thing until you know exactly what you like and dislike about it.

The Bose L1S+Tonematch is heavy, not "one box" thing unlike the JBL (...that is not really since it needs an external mixer) But it sure sounds good.

Last time I told you to wait for the proper product to come out. The only fact that you are thinking Bose L1S means that when you'll have it, Bose may within in 6 weeks...

Bose product are getting old. They must move.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I think you should gig the thing until you know exactly what you like and dislike about it.



The Bose L1S+Tonematch is heavy, not "one box" thing unlike the JBL (...that is not really since it needs an external mixer) But it sure sounds good.



Last time I told you to wait for the proper product to come out. The only fact that you are thinking Bose L1S means that when you'll have it, Bose may within in 6 weeks...



Bose product are getting old. They must move.

Ouch!!! That's both hurtful and true. :-).

Thankfully, the little tablet (that doesn't randomly disconnect and saves settings!!!) is actually making me feel a little better about the mixer. If I can get used to it, it has the added advantage of making my sound "portable." I can plug it into any speaker. I'll gig it for a while and see how it goes.


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[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I think you should gig the thing until you know exactly what you like and dislike about it.

The Bose L1S+Tonematch is heavy, not "one box" thing unlike the JBL (...that is not really since it needs an external mixer) But it sure sounds good.

Last time I told you to wait for the proper product to come out. The only fact that you are thinking Bose L1S means that when you'll have it, Bose may within in 6 weeks...

Bose product are getting old. They must move.

My Bose L1M2 (replacement for my OLD original Classic that quit at a gig) was overkill for a good many of my gigs and it was a lot of parts to carry. Love the way it sounds etc..., but I'm trying to lighten my load due to health issues. The JBL, even with an additional powered speaker or two, may be easier in some ways. I bought the huge Bose sub, but it's a beast. I ended up continuing to use my old small one (or two if outside).

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by DavidE

My Bose L1M2 (replacement for my OLD original Classic that quit at a gig) was overkill for a good many of my gigs and it was a lot of parts to carry. Love the way it sounds etc..., but I'm trying to lighten my load due to health issues. The JBL, even with an additional powered speaker or two, may be easier in some ways. I bought the huge Bose sub, but it's a beast. I ended up continuing to use my old small one (or two if outside).

That makes sense. It does seem like a lot to carry. I'm actually satisfied with the JBL and the all-in-one design. The preamps are a disappointment, but nothing's perfect.


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