Any Advice on Portable Line Array PAs? (BOSE, etc)

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

I have the AH4x4 and am not from the UK so you can trust me haha! It works very well but do remember never to run them on AA's because they'd be underpowered, use the 18650 cells instead. I have a friend who uses the Mackie FreePlay and I hear him play a lot, the FreePlay definitely sounds quite a lot worse than the AH4x4 but they aren't even in the same price/weight range. The Laney doesn't have EQ though (only presets) and it really needs more knobs like martingitdave says!

Hi Necrome you did not tell if you had experience grounding hum issues as reported in soundonsound magazine. Can you tell us?

Can you also tell us what is the real autonomy using 18650 cells?

Cuki

[necrome]

Cuki, I've not experienced any humming with the AH4x4, is it because I only run it on batteries? Or is it because there's a ground hum button on the TC Helicon Harmony Singer which I use? The AH4x4 come with 2 different kinds of swappable battery casings, one for AAs and the other for 18650 lithium-ion cells (normally used for flashlights and vaping).

You basically get any well made 18650 cells WITH A BUTTON on Amazon or other online retailer in a good capacity and it works well. The 18650s must not be too long though - they come in different lengths. The ones I get look like this

[Cuki79]

Great!!

Panasonic are either protected or non protected. Laney says to get the protected one. Are they too long? I read the panasonic protected are very long...

Can you please measure and send me the length?

Also what about the lack of EQ on the mic and the loudness? Did you hear the 117dB ? I think they can do that because the unit has probably a good low cut.

Did you compare to let's say the Maui 5? (The Maui 5 Go being the only real competitor)

I think I'll order a AH4x4 on tuesday. The Maui 5 go can't be that much better and I am not sure you can benefit from the bass on the ground in difficult environments

Any other advice on the AH4x4?

Thanks
Cuki

[necrome]

I researched a tonne before I got the protected ones, but according to what I read, unprotected cells would work as well because the protection is for big current surges which I don't believe happen with audio equipment. The manual is also vague with their battery/brand suggestions and most of the battery models listed in the manual aren't the specific model numbers of batteries out there in the market. Tricky stuff!

The ones I have measure 68mm and you probably can't go any longer than that! The battery holder provided also has thin connecting wires which I don't believe can last a long while so I bought a few extra just in case which I've linked below. It requires some soldering with a connector which you can see for yourself when you receive the item. Do note that I do not make my purchases on Amazon because I'm in Asia!

https://www.amazon.com/Sonline-Batte...18650+holder+3

For a few weeks, I ran the AH4x4 by itself and found the lack of EQ slightly problematic with feedback and tone. The automatic feedback reduction switch on the AH4x4 automatically detects looping frequencies and forcibly cuts (not fade!) it off after about 5 seconds. This means if you have a deliberate note sustained for that amount time, it'll be mistakenly detected as feedback and be cut off. It also doesn't remember that frequency which means it repeatedly cuts off notes which can make things unmusical (in short, don't use the built-in feedback removing function).

The default AH4x4 EQ presets are mostly useless for guitar + vocals unless you need a bass boost which sounds somewhat unnatural. The EQ applies to all channels and not individually so it can be problematic because you don't necessarily want all your sources to be EQed the same. People that hear me often also commented that I sounded better with the Roland AC-33 - which is no surprise because the AC is tuned for acoustic guitar + vocals and sound warmer. What I do now is to run my guitar + vocals into the Roland AC-33 (powered by 8 x AAs) to cut mids for the guitar and then aux out to the AH4x4 for further amplification.

At the maximum volume without clipping, I hit about 78dB from 3-5 metres away. I highly suspect 117dB is possible only if you have a compressed sound source or if you are clipping badly, I don't think it's practically viable for something spike-ish like guitar + vocals! Let me see if I can upload a sound test clip of my setup which my friend recorded for me earlier this week

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

People that hear me often also commented that I sounded better with the Roland AC-33 - which is no surprise because the AC is tuned for acoustic guitar + vocals.

Hum Hum... Does not sound good at all. Roland AC-33 sounds better?

Do you mean the guitar or the vocals?

Does the AC-33 color a lot the sound to improve the sound of the acoustic?

Is the AH4x4 more transparent? I thought it was meant for vocals?

I like a more transparent speaker since I have my IR pedal to solve the acoustic guitar plugin sound problem.

Why do you use the AH4x4 if the AC-33 sounds better?

If I understand well you like the Roland AC-33 preamp.

How do you EQ your guitar and vocal?

How did you measure 78dB? Is it 78dBa?

Cuki

[necrome]

Quite a number of non-musicians told me the AC-33 sounded better overall and it was more "warm" sounding when I first ran the AH4x4 individually. In the sound test (which I'm still trying to upload), the AC-33 sounds like it has less highs. I did read somewhere that acoustic guitar amps are coloured/tuned differently to make amplified acoustics sound better which PAs are not supposed to do. I suspect the AH4x4 is not necessarily more transparent but tuned different, and in the sound test, it actually sounded better than the AC-33 (reinforced by my pianist friend) when I route the signal through the AC-33 which seems to imply that it's a preamp issue like you mentioned!

The AH4x4 is A LOT louder than the AC-33, clips FAR LESS has much greater reach and clarity due to its form factor which is why I got it. I drop mids from 12 o'clock to 9 o'clock (7 being the lowest) for the guitar and have vocals on neutral (everything 12 o'clock) after going through the TC-Helicon Harmony Singer on the AC-33. The Harmony Singer has "adaptive EQ" which sounds like marketing speak for a low/high boost so it's not exactly an un-EQed signal off my Shure dynamic headset mic. I do not like the AC-33 preamp more personally but rather use it as EQ and reinforcement to project my sound at a larger angle or use it as a monitor. The 78dB measurement is from a phone app that I downloaded, I am not too scientific a person so am not too sure of the difference between dB and dBa! Overall, with the addition of the AH4x4, I take in 30% more earnings from my busking so it's definitely an amazing investment that paid for itself within its first week of use I've never sounded better amplified too and am very happy with how things currently are. People love it as well so it works for them too!

As a sidenote, I am considering an upgrade to the JBL Eon One Pro when it launches because I'd love to reduce my setup to a single amplification device. The price and weight are far from ideal though so I'm not really convinced about it yet.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

Quite a number of non-musicians told me the AC-33 sounded better overall and it was more "warm" sounding. In the sound test (which I'm still trying to upload), the AC-33 sounds like it has less highs. I did read somewhere that acoustic guitar amps are coloured/tuned differently to make amplified acoustics sound better which PAs are not supposed to do. I suspect the AH4x4 is not necessarily more transparent but tuned different, and in the sound test, it actually sounded better than the AC-33 (reinforced by my pianist friend) when I route the signal through the AC-33 which seems to imply that it's a preamp issue like you mentioned!

The AH4x4 is A LOT louder than the AC-33, clips FAR LESS has much greater reach and clarity due to its form factor which is why I got it. I drop mids from 12 o'clock to 9 o'clock (7 being the lowest) for the guitar and have vocals on neutral (everything 12 o'clock) after going through the TC-Helicon Harmony Singer on the AC-33. The Harmony Singer has "adaptive EQ" which sounds like a low/high boost so it's not exactly an un-EQed signal off my Shure dynamic headset mic. I do not like the AC-33 preamp more personally but rather use it as EQ and reinforcement to project my sound at a larger angle or use it as a monitor. The 78dB measurement is from a phone app that I downloaded, I am not too scientific a person so am not too sure of the difference between dB and dBa! Overall, with the addition of the AH4x4, I take in 30% more earnings from my busking so it's definitely an amazing investment that paid for itself within its first week of use

Thanks, what did you think of the sound of the vocal with a mic straight into the ah4x4?

I can handle the guitar sound with my IR pedal and I can also add a buffer if the preamp is the question. But there is not a lot of option for mic EQ on the market ... How do you power the harmony singer? TC pedals are big current consumers... And I already have the IR pedal... I was planing to buy a rockboard power device.

Can' wait to hear your sample

[necrome]

The old gen 1 Harmony Singer ran on 12v so I bought a 12v China-made lithium ion cell from an electronics mall, paid someone to reverse the polarity on it and it worked! Twas basically a risky DIY bet for a non-techie like me haha! The gen 2 Harmony Singer released recently now runs on a 9v battery so TC Helicon solved that problem on that front.

I never got to hear myself straight out of the AH4x4 at a reasonable distance with full volume in front of the speakers like how the audience would - and that bugs me a tonne. I don't have a recording of it myself either when I ran it alone. It sounded good but slightly harsh from where I stood (behind the device) but I've learnt that everything sounds "good" from there because you can never hear the clipping or other problems that come through the front. If you listen to Andertons' demo of it, you can hear some sibilance from the highest frequencies of the guitar which is the harshness I speak of. Granted, I notice that kind of sibilance in a lot of PAs I play through so it's probably not isolated to the AH4x4. The vocals in their demo also don't cut through as much as I'd like due to the lack of EQing!

Video is up:
https://youtu.be/UrjanHiKkqA

The video starts out in the angle of the AC-33, pans across to get the sound from the entire range and then back to the front of the AH4x4 Don't mind the mandarin song + potato handphone mic!

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

The old gen 1 Harmony Singer ran on 12v so I bought a 12v China-made lithium ion cell from an electronics mall, paid someone to reverse the polarity on it and it worked! Twas basically a risky DIY bet for a non-techie like me haha! The gen 2 Harmony Singer released recently now runs on a 9v battery so TC Helicon solved that problem on that front.

I never got to hear myself straight out of the AH4x4 at a reasonable distance with full volume in front of the speakers like how the audience would - and that bugs me a tonne. I don't have a recording of it myself either when I ran it alone. It sounded good but slightly harsh from where I stood (behind the device) but I've learnt that everything sounds "good" from there because you can never hear the clipping or other problems that come through the front. If you listen to Andertons' demo of it, you can hear some sibilance from the highest frequencies of the guitar which is the harshness I speak of. Granted, I notice that kind of sibilance in a lot of PAs I play through so it's probably not isolated to the AH4x4. The vocals in their demo also don't cut through as much as I'd like due to the lack of EQing!

Video is up:
https://youtu.be/UrjanHiKkqA

The video starts out in the angle of the AC-33, pans across to get the sound from the entire range and then back to the front of the AH4x4 Don't mind the mandarin song + potato handphone mic!

Thanks Necrome!

I think the main difference is that Roland AC-33 has a bass reflex with the 2x6" It gives that warmth. But the AH4x4 is very clear. I'll think about it before buying. The guitar has a very scooped sound may be that's why you like to have deeper bass.

Would you mind if I send you a mp3 file or a soundcloud link of my guitar, play a bit on the AH4x4 and give me feedback?

Maybe you could also record a comparison of the sound from the AH4x4 and AC-33 and send me the recording afterward?

I know it's a bit of work, but that would be very nice of you.

Cuki

[necrome]

hey Cuki, send it my way and I'll try to make it happen

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

hey Cuki, send it my way and I'll try to make it happen

Thanks Necrome,

I've sent you a private message.

Cuki

[necrome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNab1qJp3Hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__OWtdaZA

Here you go! Let me know what you think

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by necrome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNab1qJp3Hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__OWtdaZA

Here you go! Let me know what you think

Thank you very much!!

The AH4x4 sounds way better, much clearer. You feel the bass kind of reach a ceiling at some point but I could definitely taylor just the right amount with a bit of multiband compression or Aphex Big Bottom.

I've seen that you've cut the part when I was singing. Did it sound OK?

Thanks again,
Kien

[Cuki79]

Hi Necrome,

I've ordered the AH4x4, the bag, the exact same battery as you and a battery charger. I also ordered a rockboard XT LT for the IR pedal.

A shop dealer told me that A-Fresco is midrange focused (Laney says it's also louder) and AH4x4 is clear and detailed.

I have a new idea to "enhance the bass" without clipping using my IR process.

Thanks again,
Cuki

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi Necrome,



I've ordered the AH4x4, the bag, the exact same battery as you and a battery charger. I also ordered a rockboard XT LT for the IR pedal.



A shop dealer told me that A-Fresco is midrange focused (Laney says it's also louder) and AH4x4 is clear and detailed.



I have a new idea to "enhance the bass" without clipping using my IR process.



Thanks again,

Cuki

Cuki and Necrome,

The video demos sound great. I don't hear a lack of bass at all. That Laney unit would have been just fine for me. I hope you enjoy it. It looks to be a good value for the money.

I would have guessed that the Roland to perform much closer to the Laney. But the Laney is clearly more powerful and clear. That's the benefit of PA design.

Best of luck!


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