Why Do Many Amp-Type Products Seem To Be Missing One Or Two Key Features?

[slewis]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

There's no "perfect" system because no two performers need or want the same features.

THIS! It's that simple.

[Pecx]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Acus (company from former workers of SR tech) make a JAM 150 that is tillable with me extra accessory.

Acus forstrings Cremona. It s for Spanish guitars but I am pretty sure there was an acus 8 (jam150) version few years ago



There is one in the shop where I ve tried the HK nano 600. In France, you can find those everywhere...

Definitely. Italy makes great amps!
For how much can you buy that Cremona in France?

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by slewis

THIS! It's that simple.

You guys aren't reading our posts!

I probably could have titled the thread better and then people wouldn't just read the title and keep posting this same thing.

I have said several times that no one could create something that could be all things to all people.

That isn't the point all.

I'll see if I can go back and change the title.

Matt

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Pecx

Definitely. Italy makes great amps!
For how much can you buy that Cremona in France?

Don't know for the Cremona, I have to go back to the shop

The previous versions

Acus one for 8 Simon (Steel strings Guitar): 888€ at Thomann
https://www.thomann.de/fr/acus_one_8_simon.htm

Acus one for strings 8 Stage: 769€ in Paris
http://www.pourlesmusiciens.com/acus...iche-technique

So I would say the Cremona would be 1200€ list price around and 800-900€ in shops.

The standard Acus one 8 (without the wedge position) is now 769€ everywhere. (and 550€ average second-hand price)

[martingitdave]

I've decided that the solo musician amp problem is a world wide conspiracy.

The equipment companies have determined the exact result of releasing their perfect one-size-fits-all solution. We'd all buy one and stop.

The manufacturers get together once a year in a smoke filled back room at Namm and decide which features each company will leave out this season.

The magazine publishers and AGF are in on the deal. Their circulation is driven purely by the gear reviews. AGF would cease to exist if every amplification question was answered by "Get the new JBL Model XYZ. It's perfect. Literally." We got dangerously close 2 years ago when K&K infiltrated UMGF and erased all memories of other pickup options from the minds of the old people there. Phew, glad we dodged that bullet.

Anywho... I hope this explains why all the equipment is missing a key feature. If it didn't our whole equipment obsessed world would cease to exist, and we'd all just be playing music. I shudder to think of it. *shakes*


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I've decided that the solo musician amp problem is a world wide conspiracy.

The equipment companies have determined the exact result of releasing their perfect one-size-fits-all solution. We'd all buy one and stop.

The manufacturers get together once a year in a smoke filled back room at Namm and decide which features each company will leave out this season.

The magazine publishers and AGF are in on the deal. Their circulation is driven purely by the gear reviews. AGF would cease to exist if every amplification question was answered by "Get the new JBL Model XYZ. It's perfect. Literally." We got dangerously close 2 years ago when K&K infiltrated UMGF and erased all memories of other pickup options from the minds of the old people there. Phew, glad we dodged that bullet.

Anywho... I hope this explains why all the equipment is missing a key feature. If it didn't our whole equipment obsessed world would cease to exist, and we'd all just be playing music. I shudder to think of it. *shakes*


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Better, we all have the perfect solution at home, and just post fake reviews just to prompt MartinGitDave to buy and return more gear

[pipedwho]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I understood your post. I just made the choice to take it in a different direction. I didn't see much merit in discussing whether or not one company could make one product that satisfied the needs of everyone. I assumed that you must know that I know that it would be impossible for one thing to appeal to all people. That's not the point of this thread at all!

Yes, we all might need/want different things but the list of the basics really isn't that long. Yet it seems like all of the products we've discussed here are missing one or more of the basics. Why?!

How many different ways are there to use an acoustic amp?

Three: 1) mounted on a stand, 2) sitting upright on the floor/table/counter and 3) tilted back as a monitor.

How many channels does a singer/guitar player need?

Two: ideally that accept both 1/4" and XLR with 3 band EQ plus a master volume.

This isn't rocket science and these aren't my super weird, quirky criteria!

Add a DI out, make it small enough to be portable yet enough to fill a small venue and I think this would appeal to a large group of people.

Yet this product doesn't seem to exist. So many are so close. That seems weird to me. That's all.

Matt

What about the AER Compact 60 (and probably a slew of other acoustic guitar amps) doesn't meet this criteria?

With the AER C60 you can mount it on a stand with the (albeit flimsy) mic stand mount, you can use the optional velcro tilt stand, or sit it on a table/chair/counter.

It has two channels, XLR/.25" combo jack for the second channel channel, 3 band EQ for each channel, a master volume, XLR DI out, 0.25" line out, and loud enough to fill a small venue. And most importantly it's small, light and portable.

I can see enhancements that some people may want at the detriment of other specs, like more power (adding more weight and size), more channels (adding more size), wider line-array style horizontal dispersion pattern (bigger size/shape maybe, different coverage that still may not suit all).

One thing that could be improved easily on the AER C60 is a more robust stand mount or stand mount adapter. Although this probably wouldn't affect very many users.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by pipedwho

What about the AER Compact 60 (and probably a slew of other acoustic guitar amps) doesn't meet this criteria?

You can only use the Compact 60 in 2 of the three optimal positions for an acoustic guitar amp. The tilt wedge isn't close to the right angle for a wedge monitor.

AER clearly realized this and made the Slope 60. But since they left off the stand mount the Slope 60 can only be used on the floor or set on something. Add a feature, take one away!

As a side note there is an adapter that screws into the Compact 60 that lets you put it on a conventional speaker stand. That is way more solid than the mic stand mount.

Matt

[hotroad]

Anyone used the Shertler Tim??? Its a sub with two smaller speakers on poles or on top of the sub. Versatile. Compact. Lightweight. High quality. affordable ($1100). As good as any other Shertler product such as the Unico, etc. Stand mountable. Bi-amped. Line out XLR. Two XLR in's. 10" Woofer. Independent XLR outputs for each channel which is huge and unique....imagine taking the vocal channel to one chain/amp and the guitar lead to a separate chain with effects perhaps and then another amp. Lots of stuff there but do-able.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this exact system. There is the Tom version but its too heavy and too powerful. This one is 300watts for the sub and 150 for the satellites.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by hotroad

Anyone used the Shertler Tim??? Its a sub with two smaller speakers on poles or on top of the sub. Versatile. Compact. Lightweight. High quality. affordable ($1100). As good as any other Shertler product such as the Unico, etc. Stand mountable. Bi-amped. Line out XLR. Two XLR in's. 10" Woofer. Independent XLR outputs for each channel which is huge and unique....imagine taking the vocal channel to one chain/amp and the guitar lead to a separate chain with effects perhaps and then another amp. Lots of stuff there but do-able.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this exact system. There is the Tom version but its too heavy and too powerful. This one is 300watts for the sub and 150 for the satellites.

That looks great. If you like Shertler, you might take a peak at the Acus PA units.

http://www.acus-sound.it/en/products...50-detail.html


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by hotroad

Anyone used the Shertler Tim??? Its a sub with two smaller speakers on poles or on top of the sub. Versatile. Compact. Lightweight. High quality. affordable ($1100). As good as any other Shertler product such as the Unico, etc. Stand mountable. Bi-amped. Line out XLR. Two XLR in's. 10" Woofer. Independent XLR outputs for each channel which is huge and unique....imagine taking the vocal channel to one chain/amp and the guitar lead to a separate chain with effects perhaps and then another amp. Lots of stuff there but do-able.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this exact system. There is the Tom version but its too heavy and too powerful. This one is 300watts for the sub and 150 for the satellites.

The previous version: SR Technology Pocket had a bad review/measurements in the French sonomag magazine.

[pipedwho]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

You can only use the Compact 60 in 2 of the three optimal positions for an acoustic guitar amp. The tilt wedge isn't close to the right angle for a wedge monitor.

AER clearly realized this and made the Slope 60. But since they left off the stand mount the Slope 60 can only be used on the floor or set on something. Add a feature, take one away!

As a side note there is an adapter that screws into the Compact 60 that lets you put it on a conventional speaker stand. That is way more solid than the mic stand mount.

Matt

If you turn the amp on its side and tilt it back so the back is on the tilt wedge, it points up at you at the tilt angle. That is much closer the conventional wedge angle.

I have to get myself one of those speaker stand adapters, that looks much more solid than using the mic stand mount directly.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by pipedwho

If you turn the amp on its side and tilt it back so the back is on the tilt wedge, it points up at you at the tilt angle. That is much closer the conventional wedge angle.

I had some photos of my Compact 60 floor wedge solution but I can't find them. I would do what you described and then use two small pieces of wood wrapped in some thin rubbery padding to further support the amp.

I probably should have kept the Compact 60 and I agree that it is very versatile.

I have maybe done a poor job of expressing myself in this thread.

It's not about how I could take an existing product and prop it up with plywood, drill some holes in it, add a mixer, buy an amp stand and so on.

It's about why things are left off that could make good products great products.

Matt

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I had some photos of my Compact 60 floor wedge solution but I can't find them. I would do what you described and then use two small pieces of wood wrapped in some thin rubbery padding to further support the amp.

I probably should have kept the Compact 60 and I agree that it is very versatile.

I have maybe done a poor job of expressing myself in this thread.

It's not about how I could take an existing product and prop it up with plywood, drill some holes in it, add a mixer, buy an amp stand and so on.

It's about why things are left off that could make good products great products.

Matt

To help Matt, one example of the original OP would be the JBL eon one. It solved most of the reservations I could have about the Bose L1c (at least on paper) but missed the target by not including hi-z inputs and proper gain stage.

Probably the guy who tested it only used a very hot output guitar like Taylor es2 or did not even test it in a guitar!

The 600 ohms mic impedance on the original JAM 150 was crazy.

Cuki

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I have maybe done a poor job of expressing myself in this thread.

It's not about how I could take an existing product and prop it up with plywood, drill some holes in it, add a mixer, buy an amp stand and so on.

It's about why things are left off that could make good products great products.

Matt

I think you have been expressing yourself pretty well in your last few posts
The answer to your question lies internally within your specific expectations.
vs the external reality of mfg. and market demographics.

There are a several main reasons things are left off:

There are not needed to sell the product to sufficient numbers of the target demographic.

They would increase the cost beyond what the target price point is.

Every included feature adds costs and may be perceived as adding unnecessary expense by some of the customer base thus potentially limiting the target market, where by being left off (and if ) it can easily added by the customer post sale , can actually increase market potential.