Track volume on CD

[BoneDigger]

Is there software that will take multiple tracks and make them equal in playback volume? I know some services like Pandora have ways to do it. I think it's called normalization if it's within a single song. Not sure what it's called when you are trying to bring multiple tracks to the same level.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[rick-slo]

You can take each song and normalize them individually (say in Audacity and say to -1.0 decibel below max amplitude). However the normalization is
in reference to the loudest sound in the song. So if a particular song is generally quite overall except at a certain point(s) compared to some other song
then the two normalized songs will not sound equally loud. In that case rather than using some automated process you may need to individually adjust
the gain on each song by ear to make the perceived overall volume of each song in the same ballpark.

[Mr. Jelly]

In my experience normalizing does not do the job that you want accomplished. Songs that had been compressed more than other songs will come out even louder than when you started and songs that were not compressed as much won't be much different than when you started. I don't have the answer to your question but I do know normalization isn't the answer. It does matter if you are speaking of tracks that were recorded and mixed by the same people etc. compared to tracks processed by different people etc.

[KevWind]

I would agree an automated process is arguably the least desirable way to master a compilation of songs . If you practice you should be able to get close enough by ear for most usage.

[MikeBmusic]

First, your mixes need to be consistent - compression on the tracks that need it, for example, so that those peaks don't mess up the mastering process.

At the mastering stage, I put a limiter on the stereo mix (still in 24 bit) to bring the peaks to -0.3dB(full scale). Then a very slight compression after to bring it to -0.1dB.
I'll burn a CD of all the songs, then listen to it to see if any of the songs need to be 'turned up' or turned down' - there may be one or 2 in an album's worth of songs. On those I will usually adjust the limiter for a little more (or less) compression to bring up/down the volume. But another way is to just turn up the stereo track volume (pre limiter), often turning the limiter compression down to compensate.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Is there software that will take multiple tracks and make them equal in playback volume? I know some services like Pandora have ways to do it. I think it's called normalization if it's within a single song. Not sure what it's called when you are trying to bring multiple tracks to the same level.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

What you're talking about is "mastering." Per the other remarks, normalization won't get you there.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[paulp1960]

To really alter the perceived volume of a track you need to be looking at multi-band compression and probably combined with look-ahead limiting.

A plug-in such as Waves L3 Multimaximizer can do this:

http://www.waves.com/plugins/l3-mult...ultimaximizers

That's great value on offer for $49. Of course there are other products that do the same or similar and also dedicated rack units that do the job.
Something like that can make a track sound 3-6 Db louder without too many negative effects on the quality.

Sadly for me such compression is overdone on a lot of material these days. I like the music of Amy Winehouse but the dynamic range is too squashed for my tastes.

IMO if you have a really nice powerful hi-fi or monitors music with more dynamic range can sound much better.

[Northward]

Originally Posted by paulp1960

Sadly for me such compression is overdone on a lot of material these days. I like the music of Amy Winehouse but the dynamic range is too squashed for my tastes.



IMO if you have a really nice powerful hi-fi or monitors music with more dynamic range can sound much better.

I guess you said it yourself at the end there, the golden age of great dynamics are gone, at least in commercial pop music. I guess they went away along with the great, big hifi systems people used to own. Now it's mostly phones and small gadgets playing back MP3's and it's all mixed for this - real squashed.

They say there are some classic pop albums from the 70&80s that really shines with their dynamics. (e.g. ELO, ABC, Tears for Fears), And that younger, more ITB studio engineers lack this skills. These mentioned artists still sits good in the speakers today I think, radio playing 'oldies pop'. But then again radio add their own compression... I suspect some of you know a lot about these things.

Today, we're all so used to it that uncompressed material sounds 'unfinished' somehow.

Someday I'm gonna get myself a nice Reel to Reel machine and listen to classics recorded onto tape. The little I've heard it's like magic to my ears. Way nicer than vinyl imo. And light years from the hard sound of today.
There is something musical about that tape saturation that modern equipment doesn't do. I know they work hard to sell their sleek emulation s of this, but I don't hear anything like it. Clever marketing IMO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RedJoker]

Northward, I have to admit, I loved your comments about how much better the old equipment and methods were. Then your post ended with:

Originally Posted by Northward

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The irony made me smile.

[Bob Womack]

On the subject of listening to albums the way they were intended to be heard: As a recording engineer, there were albums along the way from the '70s to now that I wanted to hear like the original recording engineers and producers did in their control rooms or mastering suites. I've got the listening space and monitors - now I want to hear what they were hearing. I dreamed of getting original master tapes.

These days your best bet it probably "subscription mastering." By that, I'm referring to the small audiophile mastering shops that pay the labels to take the original tapes and master them for CD or Super Audio CD (SACD). One in particular, Audio Fidelity, has produced some really nicely mastered products that restore the original dynamic range to the albums. They demand from the labels the original master tapes and then spend weeks or months lovingly mastering the products. I have several of their CDs and SACDs. A couple of caveats:
1. You'll need a Sony player to play SACDs because they own the SACD format and are little rotters at licensing it out.
2. The initial levels on these CDs are lower than modern CDs. You've only got so much gain and the only way to expand the dynamic range from the limit is downward. Expect somewhere around six db lower levels.

On Audio Fidelity I've got YES' Close to the Edge and Going For the One and both are fantastic. I've also got several of their masters from Joe Walsh - The Smoker You Drink the Player You Get, So What? and But Seriously Folks... I also have several other titles including Linsa Ronstadt's Heart Like a Wheel. Of those, But Seriously Folks... is the only disappointment. That particular album arose right in the middle of my engineering education so I have definite memories of exactly how it should sound. The mastering engineer painstakingly got the bass right but the high-end wasn't nearly as pronounced and present as the original. I suspect the mastering engineer hasn't been around long enough to remember that one.

There are several subscription mastering outfits out there and some bands are commissioning remastering of their own albums. Tom Scholtz of Boston went back and remastered his classic albums. YES have remixed and remastered several of theirs. Mobile Fidelity is the most famous subscription mastering service. Quite often these albums are offered for a lower price on Amazon.

Bob

[Northward]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Northward, I have to admit, I loved your comments about how much better the old equipment and methods were. Then your post ended with:







The irony made me smile.

Haha I'm no different than most. But still old enough to own some decent Hifi from the 90s. In boxes in the basement at the moment [emoji23]

Still, I plan to utilise a tape deck in my recording process. Just need to find one with high speed and they're rare over here.

What is the best online options for Audiophiles? (Extensive catalogue). Who sells/streams in high resolution.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Northward

Haha I'm no different than most. But still old enough to own some decent Hifi from the 90s. In boxes in the basement at the moment [emoji23]

I'm still using my stereo based upon big recording studio monitors. Oh, and I own one of those excellent Norwegian tape decks by Tandberg, a 9100X.



Bob

[rick-slo]

Regarding compression, I would think that many, if not most, solo guitar recordings are minimally compressed if at all.
Of course radio and TV broadcasts mess with things and add their own compression.

[FrankHudson]

In regards to the death of dynamic range there are a number of factors there. In the old "HiFi" days I don't know how many people actually listened to their HiFi setups in nicely setup rooms at the proper listening points. Given the amount of money spent on that HiFi stuff, I suspect it was an appreciable number. And there were those, not doing quite that, but let us say appreciating various herbal products, who while not in well-setup rooms or in the proper listening position, where none-the-less listening closely in an otherwise quiet room.

I don't think very many people listen like that today. About the only time I do something like that is on car trips. If I was to take one of those good "HiFi" masters from that era and try to listen to in a car I wouldn't be able to hear the lower volume material over road noise. Likewise, phone earbuds in the typical noisy environments.

Given how much time I spend on my composing, recording, mixing and mastering during my current project, about the only time I actually listen carefully in a quiet environment to music in the past year or more, has been when I'm doing that. And what do I do to make sure that I haven't compromised the work being audible to an audience before finally signing off on my "master?" Listen on earbuds in MP3 compression and on burned 44.1/16 bit CDs in my car.

Now back to the OPs question:

When I used to think of the final form I'd have friends and family listen to things would be a CD, I worked to try to make sure the volume's matched for the tracks in the CD, particularly adjacent tracks where any unintended volume change would be most noticeable. The mastering software I used was Izotope Ozone, which let me tweak tracks, usually in it's Maximizer section, to get louder apparent levels so that the CD could survive the car stereo test with the pieces with quieter sections. Taken to where the waveform looks like "sausage stuffed into a casing" levels (which a maximizer allows you to do) you get the fatiguing and unmusical effect that we're talking about above. Used judiciously (just enough to pass things like the car test) you allow the music you worked hard to make to be heard by the audience with their current usage patterns.

[Northward]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I'm still using my stereo based upon big recording studio monitors. Oh, and I own one of those excellent Norwegian tape decks by Tandberg, a 9100X.



Bob

Nice!
There was a time you could have these for a song in Norway. Back when the 'superiority' of anything digital was embraced.

Speaking of compression and music in cars: did you know that the NAD 6300 cassette deck had a button for alternative recording named 'CAR' (compressed audio recording) .
Apparently this made a more compressed recording than usual, making it better suited for listening in car and for walkman use with more noise around. I'd say these engineers where ahead of their time looking at state of affairs today.

I wonder if using this CAR button would prove beneficial in home recording? On a track by track recording before the DAW. Sort of a poor mans 'hitting tape hard' - utilising the full with of the cassette tape. Using tape compression rather than a plugin compressior.

My apologie to the OP for my sidetracking. But we're sort of still on the subject of compression and with knowledgeable people's attention, I just have to ask


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk