Mic through a Preamp/Eq/DI?

[tdq]

For those of use that use a mic or clipon mic in a live situation, do you still put it through a preamp? Or is it all taken care of at the amp/PA end? I know some clipons have small preamps but I'm thinking more of the preamp/EQ/DI units that mounted/internal pickup people use. Any thoughts appreciated!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by tdq

For those of use that use a mic or clipon mic in a live situation, do you still put it through a preamp? Or is it all taken care of at the amp/PA end? I know some clipons have small preamps but I'm thinking more of the preamp/EQ/DI units that mounted/internal pickup people use. Any thoughts appreciated!

Hi tdq…
Good dual source systems are handled by the instrumentalist him/herself.

Preamps with two channels (one channel for internal pickup and another channel for internal mic) are casually referred to as 'Blenders', and they provide power to the mic, individual tone and volume control to the mic and pickup, and a master volume output.

Some also provide other features. Better ones have DirectBox functions like simultaneous ¼" and XLR output (some only have ¼" output). Some have tuner out, mute, phase shift, phantom on/off (for internal mic), and ground lift.

There are built in dual source systems which have an internal two channel preamp for mic and pickup, but these tend to be lacking in amenities other than volume for each source (no tone or master out, no Direct Box functions). There were some made a decade back (2005-ish and before) which were controlled by a BarnDoor or side-mount system that included volume and tone functions. Bagg's Dual Source (and Duet) or Fishman Pre-sys (pickup & mic) were good systems.

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[tdq]

Larry, as always thanks for your prompt and thoughtful (and thorough!) replies. In this case I was thinking more about a scenario where there is no pickup at all, but just playing in front of a mic, or a clipon mic only, going to an amp, rather than a dual source system.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by tdq

Larry, as always thanks for your prompt and thoughtful (and thorough!) replies. In this case I was thinking more about a scenario where there is no pickup at all, but just playing in front of a mic, or a clipon mic only, going to an amp, rather than a dual source system.

It depends on what you are after. Tone is subjective, so you are the one to make happy first and foremost. I use a Miniflex 2mic model 2 (quick mount version) that sounds really good without a preamp but seems enhanced to my ears through a Fishman Platinum Stage. Doug Young has a great study featuring the Miniflex here

www.dougyoungguitar.com›pickuptests

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by tdq

For those of use that use a mic or clipon mic in a live situation, do you still put it through a preamp? Or is it all taken care of at the amp/PA end? I know some clipons have small preamps but I'm thinking more of the preamp/EQ/DI units that mounted/internal pickup people use. Any thoughts appreciated!

I don't usually use a preamp with a mic, it's simpler to run the mic (external on a stand, DPA 4099, etc) to the mixer. But depending on the preamp, it could make sense. These days I'm using a Felix, which provides studio quality preamps, with a channel for XLR, full 48 volts, EQ, etc. Running a mic thru one channel of the preamp, and a pickup thru the other would give me some local control and a mute switch that controls the mic and pickup together, so that could be handy. I haven't done that yet, tho, since I normally use a dual source pickup+internal mic when I'm plugged in, or just a mic alone when I don't need to be.

[tdq]

Thanks, everyone. So it seems it's certainly not essential, but could be handy if major tweakage is wanted. If things pickup (no pun intended) I'll probably go the mic/pickup combination route but as it's early days the simple mic option is how I'm leaning at the moment. I like to keep things simple and effects to a minimum.

[ljguitar]

Hi tdq…
Sorry I misunderstood the question.

External mics I just run through the mixer.

[tdq]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi tdq…
Sorry I misunderstood the question.
External mics I just run through the mixer.

Hey no problems. Still useful information!

[CaffeinatedOne]

Just returning to the kernel of the OP's question: While performers can use separate preamps, and frequently do for their own reasons, it is not necessary. Freestanding mics, such as a stage vocal mic - SM58 or a mic like an SM57 - will plug into an XLR style cable that is usually run directly to its own mixer channel. The mixer will have a separate preamp for each microphone input channel.

Each input preamp will have its own "trim" control, usually a knob right next to the input jack, that allows you to set input gain on that mic's channel. The signal will then be routed through the mixer's EQ and signal faders (output gain) for that channel and from there it will be sent to a submix group, allowing some further tweaking. Finally the signal, now mixed with others, will be sent to the main output gain faders and out of the mixer into an amp and speakers.

Signals can get diverted ("routed") at any stage of the mixing function, and frequently are. But even in the most complicated stage mixer, the above paragraph describes the basic path a signal will take between the mic and the speaker.

You asked about clip-on mics. Those are usually small condenser mics. The signal path will be the same. The only difference is that they may require power to operate. Again, some condenser mics supply freestanding power units or combination preamps/power supplies, but the mixer has the capability to accommodate them directly. For these mics, mixers will have a switch to provide "phantom power" which means the mic cable will be energized with current, usually +48V DC. Condenser mics apply this current to preamplify the extremely small signals their diaphragms produce to an industry accepted level that will be recognized by the mixer channel's preamp. Because the condenser mic itself has this tiny preamp, the signal it sends to the mixer is often robust, leading to a low setting on the channel trim to avoid overload.