Expression System Modifications--Does Anyone Know How? - Page 3

Paul98 · #31 02-13-2014, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Hi Spruce,

I custom ordered a late-2006 Taylor, it came with the old ES, I did the upgrade to the 2007 ES, still didn't work for me, same sonic reason as you state. I was shocked, as when you READ about the ES, it seems it just must be fabulous. My luthier pulled it and replaced it with a B-Band UST and preamp, because it would be able to use the 3 Taylor ES knobs and the battery pack.

For aestetic reasons, I decided to order yet another custom, different color and trimmings - this time with NO electronics, and my same luthier installed the same B-Band. Both guitars amplified sound excellent to my taste, but the later one was a cleaner and better install - he also said the 2008 guitar seemed to be a tighter build overall.

ES fans think me crazy, but conversely - I don't see how they can use the ES.

Best luck, Mike

Absolutely agree with you Mike!

I have tried all the ES systems (own Taylors with ES 1.2 and 1.3 and went to the factory to try the latest Version 2 too... but there is no way that it can sound natural or any where near the wonderful acoustic sound of the Taylor guitar!! Very disappointing!

So far I know others who have ripped out the ES and replaced them with under saddle pickups and they do sound good! Go figure!

dgaemc2 · #32 02-13-2014, 11:18 PM

Paul98,

Wow, talk about resurrecting an ancient thread.

The last post prior to yours was June 2012!

I am sorry to hear about your complete dissatisfaction with the Taylor ES systems, but to each their own.

I have found the ES1, Gen 3 to be sound good for live use. I am not saying the ES1, Gen 3 system mimics the natural acoustic guitar tone of my guitars, but it can be set to sound very good in a live mix.

I find the new ES2 system in my 2013 516e FLTD and 2014 818ce to nicely amplify the great acoustic guitar tone from both of these great guitars!

No pickup systems are perfect, and to each their own....

Herb Hunter · #33 02-14-2014, 07:57 AM

There is no high fidelity pickup system - one that does a better job of capturing the sound of an acoustic guitar than does a microphone. The Expression System was designed to address the shortcomings of under-sadde, piezoelectric pickups whose sound is nothing like that of an unplugged acoustic guitar. In my experience, it has been a definite improvement over the system it replaced.

Paul98 · #34 02-19-2014, 01:06 AM

Dear Herb and dgaemc2 and others who love the Expression System sound,

Happy for you that it works for you... I do respect your opinions and can appreciate your believes and input. Thank you!

Is there a possibility that your particular guitar doesn't have the problem of that harsh unpalatable sound (plugged in)as my two Taylors or the ones belonging to the other guys whom I have met playing music professionally? ( I have to admit that there is one 814ce belonging to a drummer friend that actually sounded good plugged in... but that is the only one so far out of the more than 30 plus that I have come across over the past couple of years...)

BTW: I do not mean to start or want to continue the debate on the ES Sound... I just need to fix it...

As a performer and (now only part time) studio and live sound engineer, I am just trying to find a solution to a problem that I and a few of my fellow musicians have...

We have done some "blind folded" tests just to make sure that we are not biased or emotionally compromised by our investment in our preferred brands or systems... Some of us need it to make a living... not just a hobby...

I am just rather disappointed that such a wonderful acoustic guitar ended up with a pickup system that we couldn't really use as is (without severe modification to the signal chain...)

I am also quite surprised that Taylor Guitars (from my recent visit to the factory and speaking with the Technicians there) has not come up with a better solution yet. Yes, they are "still working on improving it" .

I also understand that the jury on the new ES version 2 is still out... as they say some artists have actually asked back the older "ES 1.2 version" after trying the Version 2.0... Personally for the short test I have had at the factory, I also think it doesn't sound that good (actually sounded relatively dull) even though it did tone down some of the old harshness or "metallic" sound...

I purchased my two Taylors recently from Guitar Center without having a good chance to test the plugged in sound. (My bad! I was so enamored with the acoustic sound and playability and worst, trusted the marketing literature on the ES...)

Meanwhile, if anyone has a good solution, (able to get it to plug in directly without heavy reprocessing of the signal chain) to get a warm sweet sound, I would very much appreciate it. I just hate to rip out the system from my "new guitars" and replace it but may not have a choice...Sigh!

Steely Glen · #35 02-19-2014, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul98

I also understand that the jury on the new ES version 2 is still out... as they say some artists have actually asked back the older "ES 1.2 version" after trying the Version 2.0...

I trust that by ES version 1.2, you meant 1.3 which is the third iteration, the one implemented around 2010 and continuing to appear up to the present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul98

Meanwhile, if anyone has a good solution, (able to get it to plug in directly without heavy reprocessing of the signal chain) to get a warm sweet sound, I would very much appreciate it. I just hate to rip out the system from my "new guitars" and replace it but may not have a choice...Sigh!

The idea of the ES was that of a direct plug-in from a balanced system, but I do understand your dissatisfaction. Just to clarify, you are using the recommended balanced cables, correct (TRS/TRS or TRS/XLR)? In addition, I would recommend trying the K4 preamp. I really rely on the parametrics there to notch out some of the magnetic features around 250Hz. Of course, the K4 doesn't make a magnetic system sound like a mic, but it does do a lot of good to my ears.

Again, no system is perfect. The ES has weaknesses. I have a K&K Pure Western Mini in 2 of my guitars and really like that pickup, but recognize that it too has limitations and weaknesses.

drock2k1 · #36 02-19-2014, 09:54 AM

I know this doesn't directly answer the question but have you ran an ES equipped Taylor through a Taylor K4? I was burning through Taylors like crazy until I bought one of these.

EDIT: I see I was late to the recommend a K4 party. My bad.

Herb Hunter · #37 02-19-2014, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul98

... Meanwhile, if anyone has a good solution, (able to get it to plug in directly without heavy reprocessing of the signal chain) to get a warm sweet sound, I would very much appreciate it. I just hate to rip out the system from my "new guitars" and replace it but may not have a choice...Sigh!

Can you describe your setup - the specific amplifier or PA system you have, which input you are using, type of cable, etc.? Also it would be helpful if you could clarify what it is about the sound quality that you find objectionable. Harsh, is an adjective I associate with the brittle, distorted sound of under-saddle, piezoelectric pickups. The word, metallic brings a sound-hole, induction pickup or conventional electric guitar to mind.

Jarvis · #38 02-23-2014, 09:22 PM

I have tried to like all the versions...and ended up buy a K4 to see if that could solve the issue.

Given up...cold tone ..no warmth at all..unnatural...one soundman said yesterday when I tried it live....he commented...you guitar looks great but sound honky...not natural compare to the 3-4 guitars that you have with the LR Baggs Lyric system.. he continued to say...even you Maton Mini Diesel guitar amplified using the Maton pickup sounds way better than this...

rschultz · #39 07-29-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

The idea of the ES was that of a direct plug-in from a balanced system, but I do understand your dissatisfaction. Just to clarify, you are using the recommended balanced cables, correct (TRS/TRS or TRS/XLR)?

This is the first I've heard of using balanced cables... why?

Also, is it possible to use the Ring to add another pickup... like a passive K&K? If the ES is wired to utilize the Ring, not sure what that would do.

Petty1818 · #40 07-29-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschultz

This is the first I've heard of using balanced cables... why?

Also, is it possible to use the Ring to add another pickup... like a passive K&K? If the ES is wired to utilize the Ring, not sure what that would do.

Apparently it was supposed to work best with a balanced cable. When I purchased my Taylor in 2005 it came with a balanced TRS-XLR cable. Personally I didn't notice any differences between using the supplied cable and a normal guitar cable.

MikeBmusic · #41 07-30-2014, 08:06 AM

ACKK! A 2008-started thread still going with totally different stuff happening.
What I dont' get is people buying the ES1(x) system, knowing they don't like the sound from day 1 ...

The Taylor ES1.3 uses a balanced TRS jack, and depending on the mixer/PA head you plug into, it can indeed make a difference in the sound. Let's not start this arguement once again. Just search out the many threads already here.