Why is there no pickup "sticky"?

[lmacmil]

Several times a week, someone asks what type of pickup they should use in their guitar. Sometimes a response will refer to a previous thread but more often than not, the same folks post the same information they have supplied countless times in the past (and bless their hearts for being so patient.)

Wouldn't it make more sense to create a "sticky" explaining the pros and cons of each type of pickup, preferably leaving personal preference out of the discussion? Then newbies could ask questions based on some basic information they have gleaned from the sticky.

Just a thought.

[royd]

I asked that same question in 2/10 and proposed this as a possible start... it generated a little discussion but no response from the mods.

Mods,

it might be helpful to have a sticky that addresses pickup questions that come up so often...

this might be a first stab at it...

First off, the guitar you are using is less an issue than the setting you'll be playing in, the type of music you do, and how much expense/complexity you can tolerate. Of course there are some exceptions - an offset soundhole precludes a magnetic and some bracing schemes or bridge setups may preclude other types of pickups but beyond that, it doesn't matter whether you're amplifying a Martin, a Seagull, or a Ryan. The same questions and issues are there.

Second, amplifying an acoustic is always a series of compromises. While some pickups may get closer than others, you never get a "my guitar only louder" result for a whole bunch of reasons. That is another thread.

I know it is not quite accurate, but I'll be including microphones under the general category of "pickups" for the purposes of this thread.

Each type of pickup has its own characteristic sound and attack characteristics which you may or may not like. All except an external microphone pick up their sound from a single spot/area on the instrument and even an external mic favors the area of the guitar to which it is closest. Acoustically, you hear the entire instrument. Does the single spot present you with a picture that you like?

OK, there are basically 5 types of pickups, each with strengths and weaknesses and each having its own attack characteristics and ways of coloring the sound you amplify. Here they are

1. External microphone(s).
pro's - the most likely to sound like "my guitar only louder," Even if you point it at one spot, you get bleed from more of the instrument and hear a more accurate picture.
con's - if you move, your volume and tone changes. get too close and you may hit the mike with your guitar or your hand. feedback is an issue. bleed from other instruments/voices can be an issue
use - recording, small acoustic setting with very quiet audience and performer is seated, acoustic band all using one mike and moving in and out to change balances

2. Internal microphone
pro's - get the "air" and the artifacts (hit's, slaps, & squeaks that are always part of an "acoustic" sound), get some of the benefits of an external while being able to move and not worry about hitting the mike with your hand
cons - often a boxy sound from inside the guitar, high feedback susceptibility, placement is important, bass response is problematic and prone to feedback
uses - almost always used in a dual source system. Two recent systems that use internal mics as either the primary or only source that are getting excellent reviews are the Baggs Anthem which is a dual source system and the Donnell mini-flex Model 1 which has two internal microphones.

3. Sound Board Transducer - a piezo or film element or a dynamic transducer attached to the top of the guitar. Some like the K&K are recommended to be placed on the bridge plate. Others, like in the Taylor system are placed in other places. The Taylor and the Schertler Dyn-G SBT's use a dynamic transducer with a magnet and a coil, similar to a dynamic microphone, rather than the more typical piezo or film element.
quick, in your face, attack if placed on or near the bridge plate but usually without the characteristic "quack" of an under-the-saddle.
pro's - can sound fairly close to "my guitar only louder." very minor intrusion into your guitar or none, easy installation, can be the least expensive pickup type
con's - some are very feedback prone, almost all are better in medium or softer uses, placement is critical - the wrong place can sound terrible and it may be very close to the best place, some over emphasize the artifacts (body slaps, string noise, even your shirt on the back of the guitar) especially if placed incorrectly.
examples - K&K, JJB, PUTW, BBand, Baggs, Schertler, Taylor (part of the ES system).
uses - IMHO, these work best in acoustic settings at low to medium volume or are great in dual source systems

4. Under-the-saddle-transducer - UST - there are a number of different technologies used including piezos & film
quick in your face attack. are most often used as manufacturer installed systems and are the most common type out there
pro's - they don't show from the outside, have a recognizable sound that many people like, relatively feedback resistant. these work well with modeling gear like the Aura or Mama Bear.
cons - they have a characteristic attack - called "quack" or "splatt" - that some do not like. the trebles can be harsh, installation can be a little more complicated. Some require additional routing of the saddle and bridge, balance can be tricky. Many do not amplify the artifacts at all
examples - Baggs, Fishman, BBand
uses - with a larger or electric band (especially with a soundhole cover), general use

5. Magnetic
slower, softer attack
pro's - the best feedback resistance, the best low end response, easy installation that may not modify the guitar at all, great sustain, wide price range from very inexpensive to fairly pricey
con's - they don't look "acoustic," all have a tinge to a lot of "electric" sound especially on the trebles, most have little or no amplification of the artifacts. some folk claim they change the acoustic sound of your guitar.
examples - Sunrise, Baggs, Fishman, Duncan, Taylor (as part of the ES system)
uses - loud settings with band, multi-source settings for modern fingerstyle players, an easily removed pickup for a guitar that is amplified rarely, an inexpensive pickup/"my first pickup"

Then there are multi-source systems which combine two or more types of pickups to get the strengths from each and cover the weaknesses of each. For example, most modern fingerstyle players use a multi-source with a magnetic for the big bass along with an SBT for air, accuracy, and artifacts, plus maybe an internal mike as well. They require some kind of mixing system which may be internal or external to the guitar. Some companies market multi-source systems such as Baggs, Fishman, and the Taylor ES. Others are pieced together by the player using elements from different manufacturers.

Finally, there is the question of pre-amps which can be internal to the guitar or even inside the pickup with or without controls or they can be external with various levels of control. Let me make a general statement here that I know is not 100% correct but very close... all acoustic pickups sound better with a pre-amp.

So the question again is, what are you going to use the guitar for? Then, how much do you want to spend and what compromises can/will you make?

For different recorded examples, check out Doug Young's pickup tests http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
also for some more pickup demos check out http://www.fingerpick.com/pickups.htm

[lmacmil]

Nice job!

Maybe they don't want a sticky because it would reduce this sub-forum traffic about 50%!

[ljguitar]

Hi guys...

This is a discussion group, not a guitar-wiki. It really doesn't matter if people ask the same question every day.

When there are over 20,000 members (of whom a couple thousand are active at any given time) and new ones joining all the time, the interaction is great and it's nice to talk with people who will respond to individual questions.

That's what drew me here, and what holds me. I love to answer newbie questions.

When I was at the point that I was spending over $4800 on a new guitar, and wanted the best dual source system I could afford, along with the proper preamplifier/blender, and amp for portability based on my style and my needs, I was thankful for all the interaction with people here.

Nobody is forcing people to respond to the threads, or questions that people ask.

If people want to just google "acoustic guitar pickup" they can find a lot of information without any discussion.

The point of guitar discussion groups is discussion. And part of the growth of players is new information in small batches, not an encyclopedic download of information which can be overwhelming, and less effective. And FAQ or Sticky sections don't allow for information collecting (what style do you play, what type of guitar do you have, how much experience do you have etc).

[lmacmil]

Larry, I think it's admirable that you have the time and patience to answer the same question over and over. Think of how much time you'd save if there was a pickup sticky that covered the basics. Then you could devote your time to discussing the nuances of various pickup/amp/preamp combinations. It would in no way detract from the usefulness of the forum, IMO.

Oh well, I guess we've beaten this to death so I'm done.

[jseth]

After being here for a number of years now, I really think that Larry has the exact correct idea... I've gotten to the point of not even opening a thread if it's a subject to which my response would be "Have you used the search function?"...

Nobody's forcing ANYONE to comment on a thread, much less read them...

Royd? I was thinking of that very same reply you made, just a few days ago; I could not remember your name with it, though... perhaps now, I will just refer all the newbies with questions to YOU! Ha!

Larry, when I read your reply, I realized one of my main gripes with "on-line" learning vs. face-to-face (whether with an instructor or just another player/friend)... it gives the beginner too much information too quickly. I'm sure that more than a few fledgling players have looked at one aspect of online learning and just said "Oh, I don't need THAT...", only to REALLY need it a ways down the road!

I love that this is a discussion forum... and fairly well-mannered, at that!