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  #16  
Old 12-05-2016, 11:26 PM
StevenL StevenL is offline
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Heck Cheer, that sounds really good for just getting kicked off on recording. Another track recording the same part on the guitar, panned apart a bit would get you a fuller sound, but I like a nice, stripped down recording that just captures the true sound of the guy just playing and singing. Good job. You're on the right track!
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2016, 08:05 AM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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Yeah Doug! Great ears man. That demo is totally mono (not because i love pet sounds, just because i wanted to do something really simple and get feedback

I did have a slap back echo on the vocal. The bleed i was referring to was the mumbling of the words when i was recording the guitar...i tend to do that just to keep my place with the chords.

Not on this particular demo, but I will re-record in the same fashion and layer in cajone, bass, and some cello. the intention is still to keep the overall vibe very minimalist.

Thanks Steve! I've been recording demos for years, just have been unhappy with my results so trying to make some strides and need suggestions.

I honestly think the biggest step forward for me is recording guitar and vocal separate. For YEARS i recorded them together and that was causing results to suffer.

Given this is the sound i'm doing can anyone recommend a condenser that might be a better fit? The AKG C414B is high end, but not sure its right for me.

Thanks again everyone and I appreciate the feedback - positive or negative.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:21 AM
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Like Doug and Steve I think overall the recording is fine ( remember, often we are own worst critics )

So maybe the best place to start is for you to try to explain in as technical of terms as possible what is about this particular recording that you do not like.

Here is my take

I think the vocal is perhaps recorded a bit too hot and I'm guessing the highest peaks are pushing up towards... 0 anyway what I am hearing (I think) is the occasional mic signal breakup starting at about 1:21 for example.

I agree with Doug I think your Vocal would be better served with just a touch of parallel reverb.

As far as the mumbling in the guitar track, a noise gate will fix that
As far as adding in other instruments, learning subtractive EQ and likely compression is going to be very very helpful

As far as a "warmer lo fi" sound , again EQ can go along way towards backing off slightly on the upper mids.

Now as to weather the C414 mic is actually "the best fit for your voice" (and how you would like to hear it ) that is a question only you can possibly answer and it would be by demoing mics in your studio.
Personally I think the mic is fine on your voice, if it were me I would look to EQ and reverb to get a bit more "warmth" ( a much overused and misunderstood and highly subjective term)
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:58 AM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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Thanks Kev, I'll research some of the concepts you mentioned.

I'll be careful when i cut the vocal again to not go as hot.

Through headphones this one is not too bad. I suppose what I'm ALWAYS disappointed by is the way my demos sound through computer speakers or mobile speakers, I guess there is an art to mixing/EQ for those speakers.

I have been mixing with headphones only, my set up is very basic - could you suggest a pair of basic/flat studio monitors?
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2016, 11:42 AM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
...
Given this is the sound i'm doing can anyone recommend a condenser that might be a better fit? The AKG C414B is high end, but not sure its right for me.
Reading internet forums makes it seem like there are night and day differences between similar mics, and that each source is best captured only by its specific perfect mic ... and I think both ideas are vastly exaggerated. I could post some of my same source mic comparisons but I've done that so many times in the past ... if you're interested http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/index...mic+comparison

The C414 is a multi-pattern mic. Have you experimented with patterns? Omni allows very close placement without proximity bass boost. Each of the directional patterns has different reactions to mic placement. And you can angle the mic in the horizontal or vertical axis to get slightly different "eq" effects.

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  #21  
Old 12-06-2016, 12:46 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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Fran, I have not experimented with the various patterns, and I need to do that. Now that I'm doing guitar first and then vocals on another track I try to sing about 8 inches off the mic with a pop filter immediately in front of the mic. I believe my horrible little box shaped basement room with carpeting is not the most flattering space so any technique I try is usually to minimize the sound of the room. Any tips are appreciated. I have a comforter on the wall behind me...perhaps I should also put some up on the wall i'm facing.
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2016, 02:25 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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There is a ton of room to experiment, that's for sure, especially with a versatile mic like the C414.

The minimal successful room treatment I've come up with is a pair of broadband absorbers placed behind the mic. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/ When I did this I experimented quite a bit, placing panels behind me, alongside, and even building a "house" with a "roof" around the mic, but the two panels behind configuration was the one that made a noticeable difference from the bare room. I visualize the audio leaving the source, passing the mic then the absorbers, then starting to bounce around. The first and strongest reflections are from the far wall and side walls, and those reflections pass back through panels behind the mic. The back and sides of the mic are more likely to be nonlinear than the front, also, so reducing the signal they hear is a win as well.

My unframed panels are easy to stand on the floor but if you sing standing up it's a bit more work to get the panels in an effective position. Realtraps has a product they call the Portable Vocal Booth that mounts on a mic stand: http://realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm GIK has a range of stuff: http://www.gikacoustics.com/product-...l-vocal-booth/ Ready Traps has stands to use with their panels: http://www.readyacoustics.com/produc...rap-stand.html

Another advantage I've experienced with room treatment is that it seems to make mic position a bit less critical, so it's easier to throw up a mic and start recording when inspiration hits.

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  #23  
Old 12-06-2016, 03:44 PM
StevenL StevenL is offline
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Sorry Cheer. I didn't mean to imply that you're a recording newb (like me.) Need to work on my reading apprehension skills.

Is it possible that you're a bit of a perfectionist and that anything you record for yourself just needs 'something else'. I was a bit like that too. I finally got tired of striving for better recording and just quit. The struggle was ruining my enjoyment of just playing and singing. I didn't want to record the guitar, then do it again, and then sing over the track. It was fun finally getting to the mix stage though. When I get famous though, I'm going to let somebody else do the recording.

I got some very nice recorded guitar using: AT 4040, Rode NTK <<<really like that one, Sennheiser MD441, even cheaper... SM57/58, MXL 603, even down to Behringer 8000 omnis (don't laugh.) Through Sytek, RNP, and onboard Tascam and Soundcraft preamps.

Maybe you should try out some nice mic pres for some new flavor for your 414? Maybe the Apogees are too 'clean' for you. Try a Great River, a nice UA 610, Presonus ADL700, etc.

MONEY PIT! Just throwing stuff out there. Still thought the recording was fine.
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2016, 08:27 PM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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yeah definitely steven! recording is my LEAST fav part of making music. I'd much rather sit back and work on a chorus, write a verse, work on a guitar part, book a gig, play a gig, promote a gig...recording is so exacting and the problem for me is i always think i can do it better the next day so i re-record all the time...vicious cycle...

i think i'm going to record my next tune and just focus on getting a good solid tone and performance...then i'll send raw wavs to someone for processing, someone to apply high end compression, reverb, mastering ect.

thoughts?
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2016, 11:03 PM
StevenL StevenL is offline
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I think that's a great idea, if you can find someone good at it. I'd bet there are some people on here that could do that for you. In fact, there's a thread I think in the show and tell forum now in which someone took some unprocessed files from a poster and remixed them with some reverb and/or other processing and it came out very good. I haven't checked around for that kind of service but I imagine they're pretty common by now.

But I'm still pretty sure you need a Neve 1073!
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  #26  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:37 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
I have been mixing with headphones only, my set up is very basic - could you suggest a pair of basic/flat studio monitors?
Well that can definitely be an issue, even with very good headphones.
What is your budget for monitors? Note that room treatment (bass traps) are typically needed to make sure that what is coming out of the monitors is what you are hearing.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:57 AM
cheer tunes cheer tunes is offline
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I'd like to cap the monitor budget at $300.

Currently the basement room I'm in is pretty uninspiring - smallish boxy, carpeted room. I have a comforter on the wall behind me and that's about it.

I should probably be trying to minimize the room sound and just EQ, compress, reverb after the fact by a pro.
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2016, 09:04 AM
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ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer tunes View Post
...[snip]...
I have been mixing with headphones only, my set up is very basic - could you suggest a pair of basic/flat studio monitors?
I don't have much experience, but when I was looking for a pair of monitors, and trying to keep in the under $500 range I ended up with Equator D5's ($400 with pads, cables, and carrying case a few years ago and they have updated the design recently). I listened to what was available at stores, and did buy/return a pair before I got the D5's and I've been very pleased with them. They seem to have very good detail, clarity and imaging (but I'm not familiar with any high end monitors so I can't judge against the D5's against that range of monitoring gear). In general I like smaller speakers (5" or 6") for acoustic guitar and vocal playback. Prior to the Equators I had Event TR5's.
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2016, 07:23 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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For under $300, look at the JBL LSR305 monitors - you can usually get a pair on sale for about $240. Regular price is $150 each.
Drawback to these and many other smaller monitors - rear-firing bass ports, so either they need to be away from the font wall, or you have to have bass traps behind them.
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