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  #1  
Old 02-18-2018, 06:51 AM
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Default Singer Songwriter and condenser mics

Hi

Does anyone here use a conenser mic for their vocals. I’m looking at buying one but not sure what the real world advantages will be over my SM58.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:04 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
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I have a couple, and see no real advantage. The SM-58 is fine.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:31 AM
pieterh pieterh is offline
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I own and use a Neumann KMS104 and have SM58s too. There are a number of reasons why I prefer this mic over an SM58 and there are other mics (not always condenser) that I also prefer.

The plus side of the SM58 or the super cardioid Beta 58 is that they are very robust and deliver great results on stage. The frequency response is ideal for voices and even the upper range of the mic (around 15khz) is more than enough to capture the richness of live vocals. They are used by major artists around the world still so there must be something right with them!

That being said, it is also a question of what artists and technicians are used to. Condenser mics have their place but they often demand a little more care with monitor placement, vocal technique and even eq etc. There are also many artists and technicians who prefer condensers!

The downside of a tight cardioid dynamic like the SM58 is how close you need to be to the mic to get consistent results. Any directional mic is going to have proximity effect (bass roll off as you move away from the mic) and this can be used to great effect. It also means that the signal can drop off quite considerably as you move away from the mic. There are dynamic mics from other brands that cope with this better (Sennheiser e935 and e945 for example).

The advantage of using a good condenser mic for me is not having to be on top of the mic the whole time: I get a great natural tone with mine without being millimetres from the grill and it means that even if I move around a little the signal level is consistent enough that it sounds even. As with any mic I have to be careful with monitor placement but to be honest that is pretty much automatic these days.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:02 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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I think a lot depends on the application and room
An SM 58 is the work horse of mics for a reason.
With a good Sound person you can get a great vocal and guitar sound.
If you are solo then it could work. Most venues have one in their “mic locker” and there is no need to bring a mic (though I always do, as well as a foam mic cover ...it is flue season)

One advantage of a Condenser ...If you are more then one person and like to to use one mic then a condenser set on Omni is a must.

FYI in a bad sounding room you are better off with the SM58
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:21 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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I do NOT sing but our band has a few AKG c535 for vocals, thats a handheld condenser and I've found its fantastic for vocals and instruments, its very clean and very pleasing and I find it easy to EQ for different singers. Its actually one of my favourite mics, so much so that I often use it for micing up a hi-hat when I mic my drum kit. It retains the high end crispness beautifully.
I haven't had a chance to use it or hear it personally yet but a friend of mine has just bought herself a Lewitt MPT350, also a handheld format condenser, and she is raving about it.

I think a lot of people automatically associate all condenser mics with large diaphragm "studio style" mics. These large diaphragm mics are definitely more awkward to use in a live environment.
As mentioned in a comment above, the biggest advantage condensers give is not having to eat it, and if you have good mic technique when you back away the volume will be controlled but you dont lose the tone of your voice.

Personally i'm not the biggest fan of SM58's its a solid mic, but not outstanding.
I also agree with pieterh about the Sennheiser mics, the e935 is a very decent live mic, i'd take that over the SM58 for sure. I'd like to test the Lewitt mtp250 dynamic at some point, as its price is surprisingly good and i love their studio large diaphragm condensers and as I said my friend is raving about the mtp350.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:37 AM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymuso View Post
I have a couple, and see no real advantage. The SM-58 is fine.
Ditto. There's a reason that specific, and several similar, mic works well for live vocals.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:15 AM
Hoyt Hoyt is offline
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You can get very good results the SM58. Heck, Springsteen recorded his Nebraska album with two very similar SM57s and a cassette recorder. Of course, he had engineers to get the best sound out of it.

I have a nice condenser and use it most of the time just because I can, but I can get great sing/songwriter sound (not necessarily performance) out of my 58.

You'll probably notice a condenser -- particularly an omni or figure 8 pattern -- picks up a lot more room sound. First time I tried one of those in a condenser, it was like WOW. But, then, I started I was getting a lot of reflections, sounds from cats walking around, autos, trains, etc.

But if you are using cardioid setting, it will be similar to the 58.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:23 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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I'm a singer first and guitar player second and I have no love for dynamic mics, just tolerance and a recognition of their ease of use compared to condenser mics.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:33 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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I use SM58 or SM57 in the band. For solo acoustic stuff I use SM86's stage condensers, vocals and guitar (when I can). I think the condensers add a little more presence and "air" to the vocal. Nothing beats a large diaphragm condenser, but they're sensitive to shock, and it can be tough to get enough gain before feedback in a loud room. On a controlled stage (ie; low volume, good spacing between mics/monitors, etc) they can be wonderful.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:24 AM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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I will highly recommend the AKG C-535. It is a tight cardioid (less feedback problems) condenser. I toured for three years with these mics. The story I heard was that they were specifically developed for live performance on TV, so with their slim line and black shell, they would disappear, yet provide a high fidelity studio-like sound. They are built sturdier than most condensers.

During those three years, we never once had issues with feedback, and heard countless comments on how amazing the vocals sounded. My partner is a stellar vocalist whose voice moves a little into jazzy territory. Dynamics cannot reproduce enough of the nuance, only a condenser (or a ribbon - not for live use!) can do that.

If you are able to set up a few of these and do a 'shoot-out' to see which one works with YOUR voice(s), that would be far better than trying to determine based solely on our comments. An SM-57 might sound amazing on your voice, or it might sound meh (like on my voice).
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:45 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
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Come to think of it, I seem to recall reading online a rider in the Kingston Trio's contract (yes, they are still touring) indicating specifically, "No condenser microphones." I wonder what that's all about?
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:24 PM
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Thanksfor these very good replies.

I’m thinking of having a go with a condenser and have my eye on the Sennheiser e865. The main reason for wanting to try them is because I’m not great at being consistent on the proximity effect of the dynamic SM58.

Some good advice thanks.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:44 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by washy21 View Post
Thanksfor these very good replies.

I’m thinking of having a go with a condenser and have my eye on the Sennheiser e865. The main reason for wanting to try them is because I’m not great at being consistent on the proximity effect of the dynamic SM58.

Some good advice thanks.
I have a Senn e865. It's a good but not great mic. On the other hand, there's an unbelievable sale on them right now for under $100:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/E865

Were the price it's normal $270 then I would go the extra mile and get a Rode S1

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1Rode
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:05 PM
GmanJeff GmanJeff is offline
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I use a Neumann KMS 104, and find it provides more clarity and definition than dynamics, while being more sensitive to feedback and of course requiring phantom power. It is also more expensive than most dynamics; whether the qualitative improvement justifies the additional expense is subjective.
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:41 PM
MiG50 MiG50 is offline
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Condensers are, as a rule, more conducive to transients, making them better for vocals that are airy. A dynamic mic, a la SM58, will be a bit beefier-sounding, less air and more punch. It's definitely possible to get a "punchy" sound with a vocal condenser, but it takes the right mic and EQ setting.

There are a couple other differences. Condensers can be a tad more prone to feedback, and are definitely a lot more fragile than dynamics. If you drop a vocal condenser from it's stand, it could damage it beyond use. An SM58, famously, can be used as a hammer to assemble the stage, and still work for the show.
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