Advanced Fingerstyle Course: what would you like to learn?

[Picker2]

Hello everyone,

It has been many many years since my last post here, but maybe some of you still remember me.

The reason for this post is the following: I recently started writing the script for the sequel of my guitar course How To Play Fingerstyle Guitar. I know some of you folks have actually done this course, but for those who are unfamiliar with it: it starts from ground level and brings the student to a point where he/she can play basic boom-chick Chet Atkins style songs. Here are three YouTube clips of my students, which give you an idea of the end level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQAk1-bjSZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOtKEZ7sRJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgDMEtVy0e4

The sequel of this course will continue where the previous one ended, and so helps the student to reach a higher fingerstyle level. My challenge is to design a course that:
1. is a smooth continuation of the previous 7 lessons,
2. teaches you things in each lesson that makes you confident that you are getting better, but...
3. does not take too big steps from lesson to lesson, which may demotivate students and makes them quit.

Particularly the last point is challenging for me. But also point 2 is tricky. Which are typical things people want to get explained in order to learn better fingerstyle? What are they having a hard time with? Of course I can think of many things but I need to set the priorities right. I know some folks are not very patient and want to do first what they desire to learn most.

The current (premature) ideas are as follows:

- Intermezzo Humoresque, which is the start of this clip (I have received about 10000 requests for that ;-)
- Standard licks (Song taught: Song for JT)
- Walking bass lines (Song taught: Blazz the Jues)
- Standard right hand patterns
- Opening and ending riffs
- Orkney Tuning (Song taught: The Mayo Jar)
- ... ????

Are there (slightly) advanced fingerstylers here who want to improve their skills or feel they're reaching a plateau who can provide me with suggestions? If so, please be so kind as to let me know.

Anyone who comes with a suggestion that is not in the list above and will make it to the course will get a free license of the English version (due 2017).

Thanks a lot!

[fhubert]

I'm an intermediate player. The only book or course I have used has been The Alex De Grassi Fingerstyle Guitar Method. It's quite comprehensive and goes into hand position, alternate tunings, dynamics etc. I'm interested in doing some Skype or in person lessons with Tony McManus. Thanks

[Fret-O'File]

Hi Eltjo,

I am an intermediate finger-style player and have been learning the style by learning other peoples songs from tabs and youtube videos as well as by ear.
I learned the Mayo Jar a couple of years ago but by now have long forgotten how to play it. I think that's the worst part about learning the way that I do, if I don't play a song regularly, I tend to forget them and the only thing left from learning it is maybe better technique and a better ear if I learned it by ear instead of tab.
I feel like I've reached a plateau many times over the last five years and often wish I was a better musician and not just an adequate guitar player. I finally decided to do something about it and reached out to Al Petteway who lives close to where I just moved. I start my first lesson next week and am looking forward to becoming a better musician as well as a better guitar player.

I think that any player that uses your course to be a better player will stick with it regardless of how challenging it is. Anyone can learn to play guitar these days without taking live lessons or purchasing a lesson plan. There is so much free info out there. So anyone willing to spend money on lessons is probably serious about learning and won't give up so easily. In fact I think quite the opposite, if the material moves too slow and the student is not progressing fast enough they might feel like they are not getting enough for their money,. A beginner course is different, it has to move slow and you can't throw too much at a student otherwise it can overwhelm them. An intermediate or advanced player want's to be challenged and wants as much material packed into a lesson as possible. Also, I think more advanced players want to know the theory behind what they are doing and playing. Anyone can learn the technique needed to play a song but a musician knows how and why.

I am a huge fan of your playing and song writing and glad you are back on the forum. I hope you continue to post here as you would be an asset to the forum.

Kurt

[Picker2]

Kurt,

Thanks for your suggestion. The fact that a challenging learning curve is not per se a problem for an advanced course is a valuable insight for me. You just deserved your free license! Thanks!

Eltjo.

[Fret-O'File]

Originally Posted by Picker2

Kurt,

Thanks for your suggestion. The fact that a challenging learning curve is not per se a problem for an advanced course is a valuable insight for me. You just deserved your free license! Thanks!

Eltjo.

Eltjo,

I didn't respond for the free license, although I would never turn it down, thank you! I responded because you have given a lot to me as a player. I have learned much from learning your songs and watching your youtube videos. As well, I am a big fan and own many of your CDs.
Do you plan to get into theory on your new video or is it more technique oriented?

[Picker2]

Kurt,

You will have some time to mentally prepare for receiving your free license, because we will make the Dutch language course first.

There are already many books and courses that cover all aspects of music theory. I have never had a single guitar lesson in my life and know nothing about music theory. I can't even read tablature!

I guess that answers your question. ;-)

[Fret-O'File]

Originally Posted by Picker2

Kurt,

You will have some time to mentally prepare for receiving your free license, because we will make the Dutch language course first.

There are already many books and courses that cover all aspects of music theory. I have never had a single guitar lesson in my life and know nothing about music theory. I can't even read tablature!

I guess that answers your question. ;-)

Haha, yes it does. I guess there is something to be said about playing by ear then isn't there. I used to play in a band with a keyboard player that didn't know a lick of theory or read a note of music and he was the best musician I'd ever played with. He played all by ear and instinct. Unfortunately for me, I don't have those instincts and my ear is only so so, so I rely on what I can learn. I look forward to the US release.

[rick-slo]

Moving away from the boom-chick curriculum it is harder to know exactly what styles and song selections to present as there are so
many ways you can branch out. I generally prefer things are melody based, or at least are fun to play in some way. Anyway for learning
techniques probably a series of shorter tunes that use arpeggios, then added single note runs, double stop runs, harmonics, complicated
rhythmic groups. Perhaps some tap techniques if you want to go in that direction. Good luck with it.

[Picker2]

Thanks Derek, you're making a good point about melody. My definition of fingerstyle absolutely contains the non-negotiable component of a good melody and this needs to be expressed with rigor throughout the entire course. Fingerstyle without a good melody immediately turns into mere noodling i.m.h.o.

A series of shorter tunes us also a good idea. Are you familiar with my repertoire? Any (type of) songs you'd fancy to learn?

A license for you too, if you want. :-)

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Picker2

Thanks Derek, you're making a good point about melody. My definition of fingerstyle absolutely contains the non-negotiable component of a good melody and this needs to be expressed with rigor throughout the entire course. Fingerstyle without a good melody immediately turns into mere noodling i.m.h.o.

A series of shorter tunes us also a good idea. Are you familiar with my repertoire? Any (type of) songs you'd fancy to learn?

A license for you too, if you want. :-)

Your welcome. Let us know how it is coming along.

[LarryKu]

Eltjo,

I believe a lesson on "3 over 2" (1/4 triplets played over straight 1/4 bass) would be an excellent lesson. This was one of Lenny Breau's favorite playing techniques. The difficulty in playing "3 over 2" is there is no easy way to count the rhythm of both parts, so about the only way to play it is to hear both parts simultaneously. The biggest advantage to this lesson would be the player begins to hear all parts they are playing just as those listening to you hear them. Traditionally the only thing a player hears is whatever is dominant at any point of time, be it either the melody or the bass.

Once you can play "3 over 2", a player should be able to easily play any combination of rhythmic patterns in the separate voices, even if you add a counter melody in the middle. The link below is a song (TablEdit format) I put together for learning this technique. The chords are very basic, so one can concentrate on the right hand pixking.

Simply 3 Over 2

You probably don't remember me, but several years ago, I sent you a transcription of your arrangement of "Jingle Bell Rock.

Larry

[Picker2]

Thanks Larry, I know what 3 over 2 is (at least, I can tap it with two hands) but unfortunately I cannot open your TEF file. Remember I am not a tab guy. :-)

Can you export it to ASCII?

[TBman]

I'll have to look into this. Do you still teach at/on peghead nation?

Good to see you back as well.

[LarryKu]

Eltjo,

I created several files. a PDF (Notation & tab with chord diagrams), an ASCII Tab text file and two MP3 files (one played as 3 over 2 and one played with swing eighths.) The ASCII tab doesn't show the triplets or space them correctly though

You can hear the difference by listening to the two MP3 files.

Simply 3 Over 2 PDF
Simply 3 over 2 ASCII Tab
Simply 3 Over 2 MP3
Simply 3 Over 2 played as Swing Eighths MP3

Hope this helps.

Larry