What is that chord I'm playing ??

[SnowManSnow]

F augmented 6th flat 7?
So..
IV •6 b7
It's 12:30 am here so sorry if that's not right ha.


So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

F augmented 6th flat 7?
So..
IV •6 b7
It's 12:30 am here so sorry if that's not right ha.
It probably resolved to dominate or tonic

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by mwalk

Can't you have "fully" diminished 7 and "half" diminished 7 chords? Fully diminished meaning that the 7th would also be lowered a 1/2 step, and half diminished meaning that only the 3rd and 5th are lowered.

Correct.
IMO it's better to see it as:
fully diminished means two diminished intervals: b5 and bb7;
half-diminished means only one: b5.
(The chords share a minor 3rd, which is taken for granted.)
"Diminished" mean an interval which is a half-step smaller than either perfect or minor.

Originally Posted by mwalk

So an F# half diminished 7 would be F# A C Eb

No: F# A C E.
F#-E is a normal minor 7th interval. So....

Originally Posted by mwalk

And an F# fully diminished 7 would be F# A C Ebb

Nope: F# A C Eb.
F#-Eb is the diminished 7th interval, half-step less than minor.

Originally Posted by mwalk

Right? Been a while since I had theory!

Nearly right! (Don't kick yourself too hard )

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

The answer is 42, as you well know.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by themissal

A) i think the guitars is a Santa Cruz vintage southerner. It look short scale. And it sounds great.

B) Silly... Wonderful and easy way about your playing and singing. I'd love to see you live, and I would pay the cover.

Hi, the guitar is a 2012 built Santa Cruz "RS" (Roy Smeck) short scale 12 fret (I pretty much only play 12 fretters).

Thank you for your kind comments. As you see - I am an old man and don't get many gigs nowadays. I was a bluegrass man mostly but the hassles of keeping a four/five piece together proves too tiresome. I just run my club and my trio now.

[mwalk]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Correct.
IMO it's better to see it as:
fully diminished means two diminished intervals: b5 and bb7;
half-diminished means only one: b5.
(The chords share a minor 3rd, which is taken for granted.)
"Diminished" mean an interval which is a half-step smaller than either perfect or minor.
No: F# A C E.
F#-E is a normal minor 7th interval. So....
Nope: F# A C Eb.
F#-Eb is the diminished 7th interval, half-step less than minor.
Nearly right! (Don't kick yourself too hard )

So close. (I was thinking about an F natural chord instead of an F# chord when thinking of the Eb for some reason)

[macmanmatty]

why do they call that chord and F# diminished 7 and not a F# diminished 6th? is not Eb the 6th of F# and if you flatten the 7th of F# a half step wouldn't you have and E note? And could this not also be an A dim 6th if he hits the A string?

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by jstegeman

Just for fun, http://chord-c.com/guitar-chord/F/sh...ished-seventh/

The picture on the lower left is, I believe the shape you're playing

Looks like I've stumped that program with this chord;
422432

No match. Looks like this chord is not in our database.

Originally Posted by yoni

try this

http://jguitar.com/chordname

Looks like I'm giving this program a hard time as well; it came up with four different names for the same chord; 422432

(barre chord 2nd fret)
I-----I--X--I-----I-----I
I-----I-----I--x--I-----I
I-----I-----I-----I--x--I
I-----I--X--I-----I-----I
I-----I--X--I-----I-----I
I-----I-----I-----I--x--I

G#m7#11#5 G# Minor 7th Sharp 11th Sharp 5th
E7b11sus2/G# E/G# 7th Flat 11th Suspended 2nd
F#7b13sus2sus4/G# F#/G# 7th Flat 13th Suspended 2nd Suspended 4th
F#7sus2sus4#5/G# F#/G# 7th Suspended 2nd Suspended 4th Sharp 5th

It's a beautiful chord that took me a LONGGGGG time to figure out.(I play by ear, and know absolutely nothing about chord theory). The chord is from the Rolling Stones' song "Lady Jane" (played in key of D), and occurs at the transition "Just heed this plea(Am),,,my love(C,Am,D7)

That last D7 I incorrectly inserted and highlighted (for simplicity's sake), is actually the same chord-pattern again, played open. 200210 "On bended knee(G6), my love"

I-----I-----I-----I
I--X--I-----I-----I
I-----I--X--I-----I
I-----I-----I-----I
I-----I-----I-----I
I-----I--X--I-----I

Chord Namer gave me these four name options;

Search for finger pattern = {2 0 0 2 1 0}: 4 results found.
F#m7#11#5 F# Minor 7th Sharp 11th Sharp 5th
D7b11sus2/F# D/F# 7th Flat 11th Suspended 2nd
E7b13sus2sus4/F# E/F# 7th Flat 13th Suspended 2nd Suspended 4th
E7sus2sus4#5/F# E/F# 7th Suspended 2nd Suspended 4th Sharp 5th

How's that for a mouthful?

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by john57classic

Amy, Just in case it is not a typo, the "inside" dim 7 chord should be x3424x; what you wrote would be Amin7b5 or Cmin6.

thanks for catching that! it's so hard to get those right when the guitar is not in my hands.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

why do they call that chord and F# diminished 7 and not a F# diminished 6th? is not Eb the 6th of F# and if you flatten the 7th of F# a half step wouldn't you have and E note? And could this not also be an A dim 6th if he hits the A string?

We explained it above (partly), but here's more.

In the chord F# A C E, the interval from F# to E is a minor 7th (10 half-steps). Flatten that to Eb and you have what's known as a diminished 7th, F#-Eb, which is how the chord gets its name.

If you called the top note D# then yes, you're right: F# A C D# would seem to be "F#dim6" - F#dim triad with a major 6th added. However, that chord is really an inverted D#dim7: D# F# A C.

With dim7s it helps (IMO) to see their derivation from harmonic minor. F#dim7 (F# A C Eb, notes in any order) comes from G harmonic minor; it's the conventional (diatonic) vii chord in that key. G minor has a D in its scale, so the top note can't be D#, it must be Eb.

Meanwhile D#dim7 (D# F# A C, notes in any order) comes from E harmonic minor. That scale obviously has an E, so it can't have an Eb.

IOW, it doesn't matter which way up you spell the chord. F# A C D# is still D#dim7, and belongs to the key of E minor.

However... there's always a "however" in music theory ... that only applies to dim7s used as vii (leading tone) chords. We know which those are, because the root of the following chord is a half-step above one of the notes (any of them) in the dim7. The bass note has no bearing on the chord name - it's always named after the leading tone of the scale it's derived from.

But, in this song, the F#dim7 is what's known as a "common tone diminished". That's where the dim7 contains the root of the next chord, as here: F#dim7 (which contains a C) is going to C major. It might be more correct to call it Cdim7, to highlight the common tone, but it's normal for F# to be in the bass in this kind of sequence, so that's how we usually name it. (Typically it follows F and goes to C/G, so you get a rising bass line.)
In this case, it doesn't much matter how you spell the dim7 chord. F# A C D# might make sense, because the D# is resolving up to E. Or you might think of it as a variation of F7 (F7 with raised root) in which case it would be F# A C Eb. Doesn't really matter (IMO), because the chord is chromatic to the key anyway. (If notation is an issue, you'd use whichever notes gave you the fewest accidentals.)

Your point about the A bass option is interesting: convention states we'd still call it "Adim7" to reflect the bass note (and because "dim6" just isn't a thing), meaning we should - strictly speaking - spell (and notate) the F# as Gb. But that presents notation issues if G is in the next chord (which it is); we need a flat and a natural, whereas we only need a sharp sign if we call it F#. I don't know what the conventional practice would be in this case (if there even is one).

There is just one other possibility for a dim7: where one of its notes goes down a half-step to the root of the next chord. This is rare, but you see it in jazz occasionally, usually between two min7s a whole step apart, such as Cm7 - Bdim7 - Bbm7. Again, the spelling of the dim7 is optional here.

Because dim7s are symmetrical, there is no other way a dim7 can move.

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, I'm happy to let this thread continue, but I'd just like to say thanks to those who answered my question.

The thing that still confuses me is that 9in my sdimplistic world) the chords that are used in the key of C - would be - C, D(maj or min) E (maj or min) F, G (G7) A - maj or min, and Bdim. (????) so how come this F#dim7 works ?

[MC5C]

the Diminished chord can be named for any of it's notes. You can decide to name it for the lowest note and call that the root tone, or you can decide to name it based on what function it is performing harmonically. So it is also Gbdim7, Adim7, Cdim7, D#dim7 and Ebdim7.

Jonpr explained how it works with C really well, so I will just copy and paste this:

"But, in this song, the F#dim7 is what's known as a "common tone diminished". That's where the dim7 contains the root of the next chord, as here: F#dim7 (which contains a C) is going to C major. It might be more correct to call it Cdim7, to highlight the common tone, but it's normal for F# to be in the bass in this kind of sequence, so that's how we usually name it. (Typically it follows F and goes to C/G, so you get a rising bass line.)"

It also functions really well as a passing chord in the key of C between an F7 (it's the IV chord, which technically is a major sound, but often the IV is played with a flat 7 in bluesy stuff) and the C major. That's because you create an F#dim7 from an F7 chord by simply raising the root a semi-tone, F to F# in this case. What you are really doing is hipper - by raising the root, you flatten the third, the fifth and the already flattened seventh, so the new chord is a b3b5bb7 chord - which is what a diminished 7 chord is in the first place. I find this very cool. It's one of the things that I have "known" for decades but it only sunk in as to what impact it has in the past couple of months.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi, I'm happy to let this thread continue, but I'd just like to say thanks to those who answered my question.

The thing that still confuses me is that 9in my sdimplistic world) the chords that are used in the key of C - would be - C, D(maj or min) E (maj or min) F, G (G7) A - maj or min, and Bdim. (????) so how come this F#dim7 works ?

Chords are not limited to those harmonised from one scale.
In fact, in this song, there are one or two other chords not found in the C major scale: A7? D7? Fm?

The secret to understanding any chromatic chord is to look at the voice-leading. I.e., the note (or notes) in the chord that don't belong to the key will always be leading by half-step to one that does. So the F# in F#dim7 leads to G in the C chord. The Ab in the Fm leads down to G in the C chord. The C# in the A chord leads to D - in what would be Dm normally, but then the D has an F# in order to lead to G....

The theoretical terms are: A7 and D7 are "secondary dominants" (V of the following chord). Fm is a "borrowed chord" (from the parallel minor, C minor). F#dim7 is a "common-tone diminished" (shares the C note with the following chord). (Those are just labels, mind . It's the voice-leading that explains how they work.)