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#31
11-07-2010, 06:20 PM
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Throw it away? What good would that do? Why not use what is a legal saddle, knowing that when it's gone, it' gone. I still don't see why some of you are disturbed by the use of old stock ivory. What will be next? How about removing the ivory keys from old pianos.
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Happiness Is A New Set Of Strings L-20A Last edited by L20A; 11-07-2010 at 06:34 PM. 
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#32
11-07-2010, 06:40 PM
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Given the blithe disregard for living creatures from some people, we should be thankful that human bone isn't a saddle material.
PS: that wasn't meant to directly reply to your post L20A. Last edited by rlouie; 11-07-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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#33
11-07-2010, 06:56 PM
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Again, I understand that illegal ivory is "out there"... I grew up in a second world country and have travelled all over the world, including many 3rd world countries. When it is legally secured, there are moral and ethical people who provide for their families through the legal ivory trade.
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Guitar-less 
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#34
11-07-2010, 06:58 PM
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The rest (after organ donation), will burn.
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-------------------------- Taylor 815C, Taylor 410e, Taylor 314ce, Taylor 224ce-K DLX, Taylor 110e, Martin D-18GE, Martin D-14 Woodstock, Little Martin Felix II, Sigma DM-5, Sigma DR-41, Martin 000x1e, Washburn 314k Parlor-125th anniv, Yamaha FG730s, Liberty Mahogany resonator Epiphone Emperor Joe Pass, Epiphone Sheraton II, Fender Amer. Std. SSH Strat, Ibanez SZ520
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#35
11-07-2010, 07:03 PM
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I think the overriding point, at least for those of us who see this as an important issue, is that the legal market in ivory contributes to sustaining the illegal market in ivory. It's a simple matter of demand regardless of legalities. The legal supply is finite and as that supply dwindles, the pressure to keep up with demand shifts to illegal supplies. Ivory is ivory and doesn't take on a different quality just because it's deemed legal or illegal. The two markets are intimately related.
So to answer L20A's rhetorical question. Yes, throw it away. They don't allow confiscated illegal ivory to circulate for precisely the above reasons - they burn it. Gee whiz, the animals are already dead, why not just let this stuff circulate...?
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"It is impossible to imagine Goethe or Beethoven being good at billiards or golf." H. L. Mencken
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#36
11-07-2010, 07:07 PM
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Same thing with Mad Rose. Even though a lot of the supply was "legally" harvested in Madagascar...lots of the harvesting was done in protected areas after paying bribes to government officials. Gangs are killing each other to control the timber industry. I'm not sure that its as bad as the Mexican drug wars but reading about what's going on has certainly changed my desire to buy any Mad Rose...and if enough folks quit buying the stuff then the demand stops...and the profit disappears and the harm might cease.
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Kopp Trail Boss - Kopp L—02 - Collings C10 Custom - Gibson J-200 Jr - Halcyon 000 - Larrivee 00-70
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#37
11-07-2010, 07:27 PM
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I have lurked here and only recently started posting, but I find it refreshing that people can have an intelligent discussion about touchy subjects without resorting to name calling and anger. The reason most forums ban political or religious discussion is that the rhetoric gets so thick that intelligent discourse fly's out the window.
In an ethical and honest world the "old stock" ivory could and should be used. Unfortunately there are those who would lie and cheat there way into selling poached ivory if those exceptions were in place so the only way to even try and stem the slaughter is to make all ivory "illegal" to have. There are heritage rules in place that will allow you to bring your vintage instrument abroad (to most, not all countries) and not have it confiscated. You still can't sell across borders but you can visit and return as long as you go through channels. Greg N
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An artist wrestles with his own inner demons. A craftsman must wrestle with his client's. Last edited by rlouie; 11-07-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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#38
11-07-2010, 08:13 PM
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I'll add to the "good discussion" chorus. Many of the decisions we make do have ethical implications and I find it helpful to listen to and participate in the discussions.
Should I ever find myself looking at an old guitar with EI saddle and nut or bridge, this would give me lots to think about. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't purchase after market, even if I completely trusted the source. I hadn't thought about ethical questions regarding FWI... now I wouldn't take it quite so lightly. Those questions regarding folk who have legacy stashes of EI or even Brazilian rosewood and the ways their use might impact current demand are problematic but they must be asked. I'm not ready to make blanket judgments for other people (although I understand those who would) but I would think long and hard for myself. Again, this threads and others like it have raised important issues for me.
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#39
11-07-2010, 08:53 PM
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I also think that this is a good discussion, and that everyone is making an effort to remain civil.
As for other guitar forums not allowing anything other than the tonal properties of ivory to be discussed, my experience has been just the opposite: whenever ivory gets discussed, regardless of which forum, these issues can and do arise. Ethical issues ARE part of the discussion - and as in any other discussion, individuals are free to consider those aspects or leave them out of their considerations entirely. whm
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#40
11-07-2010, 09:13 PM
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I also appreciate this forum and it's members. We can agree to disagree without feeling that we have been unjustly bashed for doing so.
There are truly great members here with a vast knowledge of the guitar world. Now, any thoughts about tortoise picks?
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Happiness Is A New Set Of Strings L-20A
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#41
11-07-2010, 09:43 PM
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agree,I very much doubt if anyone could tell the difference between bone or ivory,surprised no one uses dodo bone as that is truly rare,so it must sound great.
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#42
04-14-2012, 07:38 AM
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#45
04-14-2012, 08:36 AM
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A very practical side of the question has been mentioned a few times but mostly glossed over. The ivory in question may be legal in the United States, but it is illegal in other countries. Take this into consideration if there's a chance that you'll ever want to bring your guitar overseas. Regardless of the ethics, you wouldn't want it to be seized when you enter.
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