How to amplify my Jazz-Guitar with P90 PU?

[MattBlue]

Dear community,

I´m new to this forum, starting my first post with an obviously quite tricky question. I`m sorry for my bad english, if something I say is not understandable at all, just ask so I can try again

Since 5 years now I have fun with my Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin. For those of you who don`t know this model: This is my guitar http://www.godinguitars.com/godin5thavenuekingpinp.htm
During this time I tried a lot of different things to amplify the guitar in the right way - it is a difficuilt thing. I am looking for a warm and rather mellow sound. I do mainly fingerstyle guitar, much folk, jazz, blues and pop - together with a singer. Often in the streets, also small giggs in bars sometimes. At home I use a 1 x 12" speaker tube amp, but for the mentioned activites I need something smaller and more portable.
In general I am looking for a warm and mellow, rather jazzy sound.

So I went to the local shop, trying many different things and I personally kinda liked the sound of the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin combined with a Roland AC 33 acoustic guitar amplifier. The shop owner told me this combination would be necessarily a rather bad idea, since the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin would clearly be an electric guitar and not at all an acoustic instrument. Therefore it should be amplified with an electric guitar amplifier. He suggested the Roland Street Cube for busking. I asked him why exactly the combination electric guitar + acoustic guitar amplifier would be a bad idea. He replied that the amp would not deliver the character of the P90 and that not enough mid`s would be shown. I am not too sure about what he wanted to tell me with this...
Now my question to you is: What are your experiences about amplifying the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin or guitars like it? Is the shop owner right, and the guitar should not be amplified with an acoustic guitar amplifier?

For the purpose of demonstration I tried to record 4 examples with my guitar and the Roland AC 33 which I borrowed from a friend to try it for a few weeks. But I have no clue about recording and the files sound rather... bad.
Here they are anyway, it`s the plain sound of the amp with a bit of the built-in reverb, and a neutral setting of the amp`s equalizer:
Fingerpicking: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Rmq0hyNU4d
Jazzy accompaniment: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0cfj0mD6Wd1
A bit of lead guitar: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0yPqbTxxSeh
Some strumming: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0cdISduzvDy

They were just quickly taken, so dont judge the poor playing please
For the recording I placed a mic directly in front of the amp: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1X...ew?usp=sharing
Did I do this right? How does it sound to you?

One thing: Please don`t tell me to buy an other guitar I see that this one is problematic for my purpose, but I love the feeling of it, the playability and the look. There must be the right amplifier somewhere out there!

Thank you very much,

Matt

[jseth]

Hey Matt!

First off, WELCOME to the AGF... nice to have you here... (and no, your English was quite intelligible, so no worries there!)

All the sound slips sounded good to me, tone-wise... possibly the weakest of the four was the strumming, but I think that had to do with the song being played; not that the strumming sounded "bad", but it was most like an "electric guitar" strum, if that makes sense?

Truly, the most important person to please with this is YOU! Everyone will have opinions and criticism and other recommendations, but, in the final analysis, YOU have to be happy with the sound of your guitar...

Given that, I think the Roland sounds fine, and that the store owner is a bit of an *** for suggesting that it "won't work", as it clearly DOES work for your guitar and styles. I don't think there is anything you can do to make that Kingpin "sound" like an acoustic guitar - and that doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

For busking, the Cube might be a better bet; isn't that the one that's battery-powered?

I could recommend other amps, but your criteria of using it while busking takes them off the table... I think that Roland Cube would be the one for busking, IF you like the "Roland Sound".

Good luck with whichever you choose, and again, welcome to the Forum!

[lschwart]

The AC-33 is also battery powered. I don't see why it "wouldn't work." There's no technical reason for that, so it's all about your own ears. If you're looking for a tube amp sound and an emphasis on mids, then there are tube amps out there that might work.

There are also amps designed for that Jazz box sound, like the Henricksen JazAmp. And there are some "acoustic amps" that have adjustable tweeters to help give them that warm mid-rangy jazz sound. A used Genz Benz ProLT would be a nice choice (it also has a tube preamp that can be mixed into the FET preamp for even more warmth). The Fishman Loudbox Artist and Performer also have tweeter controls.

Louis

[Br1ck]

I'd say the one thing an acoustic amplifier would do well is electric guitar jazz. Clean and full frequency is what you are looking for. What you won't get in a battery powered amp is a big speaker, which is a trade off you'll have to make for portability you need on the street.

Let your own ears decide for you what works.

[MattBlue]

Hey guys,

I meanwhile tried the Roland Cube Street and I quite liked it. The Blackface Setting, I think it is imitating a Fender model (?) is really sounding nice. The amp also seems to be very durable built and it is cheaper than the Roland AC 33. However I didn`t like the fact that it sounds very "electric"... it is possible to plug in an acoustic guitar and there is also an acoustic guitar simulation for your electric guitar aswell - but at the end of the day that amplifier is rather one for electric guitars which should sound electric for players who like to play with quite some gain aswell I think....

Right now I am thinking about something: What I want is a loud, clean and nice acoustic sound. My Guitar does not offer that. If it is not amplified it is not loud enough, if it is amplified it sounds like an electric guitar.
So maybe I have to do that one thing I never wanted to: Buying another guitar. With the money I`d pay for the Roland AC 33 I can maybe get a classic steel string which is unplugged loud enough for busking?! I thought about the Yamaha L-Series? Like maybe the Yamaha LJ 6 or Yamaha LS 6? But well, I play mainly fingerstyle, few strumming, so I really don`t know if it could be loud enough for the streets... I mean, one more good thing about this would be, that we could busk anywhere without any problems - there are some places where shop owners etc. are chasing you when you play amplified

What do you think?

Furthermore:
Right now I am still testing the Roland AC 33, and today I quickly recorded something with the singer I play with, so you could hear how it sounds together... this time I used a better mike aswell, please tell me what you think about the sound

[JCave]

Originally Posted by MattBlue

Now my question to you is: What are your experiences about amplifying the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin or guitars like it? Is the shop owner right, and the guitar should not be amplified with an acoustic guitar amplifier?



Matt

Welcome to AGF, Matt. I've owned a 5th Ave Kingpin for 2 - 3 years now. It's amplified through a Fender Blues Jr or Fishman Mini. Can't decide which I prefer. The clean sound from the Fishman is very pleasant where the Fender is a lot of buzz.

[maxtheaxe]

Roland has come out with a 40 watt (I think) version of their venerable JC120 Jazz Chorus amp. I haven't personally tried it but I've heard nothing but good things about it.

If you're looking for a really nice clean tone, that one should be on your list to check out. I would also recommend that you try a compressor to give you some warmth and sustain. The Boss CS3 is a good quality all-around tool-kit compressor pedal that won't set you back too much. Used ones from about $50.00 USD.

[121]

I think you are wise to keep your Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin and not consider another guitar.
I have a Kingpin and like very much also

I think the Roland AC-33 sounds pretty good with your Kingpin
Do you think it's got enough power for what you intend to use it for ?

I know when some folks are considering an acoustic guitar amp the idea of a power pa speaker often comes into their thoughts.

I noticed Roland has a battery powered PA speaker/onboard mixer, the Roland BA-330.
It looks like it has big speakers and there are more of them than the AC-33, plus I believe has more power than the AC-33.
I have not tried one but it seems like it would offer more flexibility over the AC-33.
The BA-330 is more costly than the AC-33, and it may or may not be more beneficial to you, but thought you may want to try it, in case it worked out better for you.
good luck in your search