Guitar building course - Page 2

Zandit75 · #16 01-21-2016, 05:29 AM

Still 8mths out, and ideas are ripping apart my brain trying to get onto paper.
I did a quick sketch overlaying my Maton guitar for a template.
I want to incorporate some blue into the theme without taking away from the beauty of the timbers. Initially I was thinking of some blue pinstripe style in the purfling, but then I saw a guitar on google images with some really nice blue Paua abalone, and thought that was really nice.

Here are a couple of photos of my first design

It's not 100% to scale, I want the "spears" to go closer to the bridge than they are pictured here, and I haven't picked up any coloured pencils in years, but I'm sure you get the gist of my first ideas.

Since I know the Paua will only be a couple of millimeters wide, I'm thinking of adding a second ring, maybe of the same timber of the back and sides for a slight contrast, and to give the rosette some added girth.
I also want to use the straight pieces of Paua for the fretboard inlay as seen in the pictures with them carrying over the edge to act as side markers.

Does anyone see any fundamental flaws in what I have in mind?

TEK · #17 01-21-2016, 11:58 AM

First, Congratulations on signing up for the building class. It should be a blast. I have not taken one but could see where it would be very beneficial.

If I were to make a suggestion, I would say, keep the design a little more simple as far as inlays go. Your two weeks are going to be filled up with just getting the basic build done. A lot of extra inlay work like that will take a lot of time to make it look the way you want it to. Learn how to build a guitar first and then learn how to "dress them up". Those two weeks are going to fly by.

At least talk to whoever is teaching the class to see if time will permit to do extra inlays.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Good luck
Travis

SMan · #18 01-21-2016, 12:18 PM

FWIW

On the subject of simplicity, the class I took with Charles Fox gave us a limited choice of options both in terms of design, materials, and body style so we could focus on the fundamentals of building. We also didn't put a finish on the guitars and left the class with a guitar "in the white". I chose to build an OM without fret inlays. I did a simple abalone rosette. Between lecture time and demonstrations prior to each step it meant 10-12 hour days with one Sunday off in the 2 week period. I was in a class with 5 other students. At the end of the class we all left with excellent instruments. My OM plays as well as any I own. I am very glad he kept the guitar design and appointments basic.

alohachris · #19 01-21-2016, 12:51 PM

Aloha Zandit75,

RE: Rosette & inlay designs for your first guitar - keep it simple. Your designs look pretty easy to make & install though. Inlays that are less bold, with a smaller imprint better enhance the overall look of an instrument, IMO.

However, if you make them yourself, inlays tend to take up more time than the actual construction process & also are where a beginners' deficiencies are more noticeable. They can also be a source of frustration too if you bite off more than you can chew on those first instruments. There are many pre-cut options available today from suppliers for both inlays & rosettes that you may consider. Check out DePaule - http://www.luthiersupply.com/

A simple wooden or ringed rosette will suffice for your first guitar. I'd only put side inlays in your first fretboard. Leave it black - IMO, it looks classier with those silver frets. Let the wood & overall design do the talking. Inlays often compete with that ethic.

Additionally, I've helped many would be luthiers get their feet wet in woodworking by making an ukulele or guitar over the decades. From that experience, I recommend trying to build an instrument on your own first - without a course or full-time mentor.

Get a mentor or take a course on your second instrument. The questions you ask will be much more informed & useful and the process will be more productive the second time around. Making a guitar on your own, will answer about 80% of your basic luthiery questions & will help you define & key in on your main concerns with the process. I think that takes more time for beginners. Build your own first.

I know today it's "take a course, go into business" for many. I don't agree. There is a wealth of info available today to get started on your own.

Or find a luthier who will serve as a "telephone or online mentor" if/when you get stuck. It'll build your confidence faster, creating your own solutions to problems or issues.

IME, after I've guided a budding luthier to the info, woods & tools they need to get started - and they've built their own guitar on their own - the building process is more rewarding & works better for them & for future instruments. The compressed time frame of building courses works against the process for many - in terms of understanding concepts, science & context.

Just another way to look at apprenticeship.

All the best as you start your luthiery journey, Zandit75. I hope more players will follow suit. Building a guitar brings people together, creates inner peace for the luthier, & brings beauty & harmony into a world that sorely needs it.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

Zandit75 · #20 01-21-2016, 07:49 PM

Thanks for all the comments guys, most appreciated.
You all make very good points in regards to the inlays, especially on the fretboard, so I may just go with something for the side markers.
In regards to the rosette, I'm still hoping to go with something like my idea above, maybe slightly modified, but we will see.
Alohachris, I have already checked out that website you suggested, which is where I stole that photo of the white and paua pieces in my previous post. I was hoping something like these would be available in pieces to make the the design I am after. I'm assuming the straight pieces can be bent slightly for the curved sections, or do they come pre-curved in some instances?
Here are some photos from the courses gallery that show previous students work, so hopefully what I have in mind is achievable.

SMan · #21 01-21-2016, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohachris

Get a mentor or take a course on your second instrument. The questions you ask will be much more informed & useful and the process will be more productive the second time around. Making a guitar on your own, will answer about 80% of your basic luthiery questions & will help you define & key in on your main concerns with the process. I think that takes more time for beginners. Build your own first.

Alohachris brings up an excellent point. This is what I did. A good friend was kind enough to mentor me and build my first guitar together in his shop. It was very helpful with my class. I was miles ahead of where I would have been. The guitar came out nice too. (A maple parlor with spruce top.) I enjoyed doing the inlay but it took me quite a while.

Enjoy the journey!

stringjunky · #22 01-21-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nacluth

Ha! I will be watching you.

As far as naturally talented...I hope Steve doesn't chime in and share how long it took for me to learn how to use sandpaper. You would think getting scratches out wouldn't be too hard, but it was for me. For my first year I thought all I would ever do is just sand wood. I'm decent at it now.

.

Yeah, I worked at a high end joiners and it took me about a year also, sanding solid stuff before they would let me on the expensive veneered stuff. I got to a point where I could get a sheen with 120 oxide paper.

Zandit75 · #23 01-21-2016, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMan

Alohachris brings up an excellent point. This is what I did. A good friend was kind enough to mentor me and build my first guitar together in his shop. It was very helpful with my class. I was miles ahead of where I would have been. The guitar came out nice too. (A maple parlor with spruce top.) I enjoyed doing the inlay but it took me quite a while.

Enjoy the journey!

I would love to have this opportunity, however living down here in Tassie limits our options. We are a relatively small island with only a population of approx 500,000 people. Through Google, there are only about 4-5 luthiers based in Tasmania, none of which are within easy reach of me.
This course I am looking to do still involves me travelling an hour from home, and arranging some form of accommodation for myself while there, as I will not have transport while taking time off work for this course(I have a work ute that could be required while I am off) My wife will require our other to get to her own job, which is 20mins in the other direction from the course!

Believe, me, I'm not trying to sound ungrateful for the excellent advice being offered here, but I'm trying to take this opportunity by both hands and get the most out of it I am able to. I seriously doubt I will have the circumstances available to me to do this again in the future. Hopefully I'm wrong, you never know!

Badcrumble · #24 01-22-2016, 08:23 AM

What an excellent idea!

I completed a building course here in Cape Town at Casimi Guitars, and I could not be happier with the result. The course itself and the experience in general stands out as the most fulfilling thing I have ever done.

I documented my course here: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=351112

It took me a lot longer than 2 weeks (perhaps 40 8 hour Saturdays and 10 4 hour Saturdays), but we started at the very beginning, with a pencil and paper, designing from scratch. Then each building our own moulds by hand and so on. If they have moulds already, and have roughly shaped things like tail blocks and neck blocks, and so on, then I expect you could shave off a lot of time.

I am really excited for you! The whole experience is just too cool, and playing a guitar that you've built yourself is indescribable.

I was so happy with my first course that I have just paid my deposit to build a second starting in march. This time a harp guitar

I'll be sure to tell you guys all about it.

Zandit75 · #25 01-22-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badcrumble

What an excellent idea!

I completed a building course here in Cape Town at Casimi Guitars, and I could not be happier with the result. The course itself and the experience in general stands out as the most fulfilling thing I have ever done.

I documented my course here: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=351112

It took me a lot longer than 2 weeks (perhaps 40 8 hour Saturdays and 10 4 hour Saturdays), but we started at the very beginning, with a pencil and paper, designing from scratch. Then each building our own moulds by hand and so on. If they have moulds already, and have roughly shaped things like tail blocks and neck blocks, and so on, then I expect you could shave off a lot of time.

I am really excited for you! The whole experience is just too cool, and playing a guitar that you've built yourself is indescribable.

I was so happy with my first course that I have just paid my deposit to build a second starting in march. This time a harp guitar

I'll be sure to tell you guys all about it.

Thanks for sharing this Badcrumble, I just looked at your thread and was blown away with the beauty of you guitar, well done bud!!

Badcrumble · #26 05-14-2016, 11:04 AM

Did anything ever come of this?

I have started my second course build at Casimi...we're trying a harp guitar!

Zandit75 · #27 05-15-2016, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badcrumble

Did anything ever come of this?

I have started my second course build at Casimi...we're trying a harp guitar!

Hi Bad Crumble,
At this stage, nothing has happened. I haven't sold my bike which is the source of the funds for the course, and winter has set in here in Tasmania, so I doubt I will get any lookers between now and September when the course is being held.
To help me get through winter, I have purchased an electric guitar kit from Pitbull Guitars here in Australia. This will give me something to muck around with over the winter doldrums, and maybe Spring will find me with plenty of lookers at the bike.
There's always next year.....

Good luck with your build, and please start up a build thread.

Bruce Sexauer · #28 05-15-2016, 06:00 PM

I hadn't checked out this thread recently, if I ever did, but I notice things about your decoration that are counter to the actual function of a guitar. Nearly everything about a standard guitar ala Martin/Gibson is actually there for a reason, it may be used for decoration, but that is not its purpose. Many modern builders appear to have zoomed past this knowledge without a second thought, but if the school you are contemplating is worth its salt, you will find out what the functions and purposes are, and I seriously recommend that you do not put your cart before the horse. Your guitars will be better for it if you take this advice.

theEdwinson · #29 05-15-2016, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nacluth

Ha! I will be watching you.

As far as naturally talented...I hope Steve doesn't chime in and share how long it took for me to learn how to use sandpaper. You would think getting scratches out wouldn't be too hard, but it was for me. For my first year I thought all I would ever do is just sand wood. I'm decent at it now.

Don't worry. You don't have the pressure on you that if screw it up, you might not eat. Enjoy it. You are going to have a blast.

Hey, Ryan, I've been saying for a long time that someone who knows should write a pretty thick textbook about the art and craft of sanding. Maybe I'll do it someday, but I'm only sixteen years into this craft, and I have a lot more to learn.
Seriously- having a good understanding of how to sand woods, or finishes, or anything really, is a complex skill, and it takes a lot of practice to get it right!

Bruce Sexauer · #30 05-15-2016, 08:30 PM

This is no joke re sanding! I still get caught out occasionally, discovering the trouble only when it's too late, but mostly it has become easier though-out my career. The key thing is not changing to a finer grit too soon, and the key to efficiency is not staying with the coarser grit too long. SO easy to say, and so hard to get right.