Complex w overtones or strong fundamental?

[HAMFIST]

So one of the appeals of the "boo-teek" guitar is complexity. The overtones, the depth.

But some folks just don't have a lot of use for this.

Where do y'all sit on this ... complex or fundamental? What are some prime examples of each one, in your esteemed opinions? What woods and design elements play into that? Or do ye think this stuff is mostly marketing and magic faerie dust?

I'll tip my hand. When asked complex or clean, I say yes!

Gotta have one of each.

The strong fundamental seems good for playing acoustically with other instruments. It cuts better. The complex guitar fills up more space and sounds more pleasant in other settings.

[44Runner]

I agree with you. Gotta have both, and a few in between right?

[pb+j]

IMHO if your playing is mostly around simple harmony--major and minor triads, a dom7 now and then--you want a guitar with a lot of jangle. It complicates the relatively simple harmonies.

If you are playing music that's more harmonically complex, with intervals that get closer to dissonance, then you want less jangle and more clarity. Otherwise it's hard to pull off, say, a major seven flat five. The jangle tends to cloud the harmony. My personal style tends toward jazzbo stuff, and I want to minimize the kind of jangle that works with cowboy chords. If i play a jangly flat-top, I'm always wanting to put darker strings on it.

But I agree that a more controlled overtone series is pretty important to playing in a band--otherwise you jangle all over everything and kill the groove.

[fregly]

Guitars are overall more useful if they "err" on the side of the fundamental. A lot of steel strings have a noise problem for me. Part of the reason classicals are generally better instruments to my ears. Too many steel strings have a sort of inexpressive monolythic drone. It's like squeezing the bellows on a set of bagpipes.

[roylor4]

For use in my duo, fundamental is king. Playing mostly side by side with banjo, super long sustain and long lasting overtones get in the way.

When I'm noodling at home and just experimenting I really enjoy the lushness of my AC522. Sounds like I'm using a chorus pedal.

I like both for different reasons.

[xuoham]

I don't understand too much this theory about less overtones for complex harmonies. Pretty current on jazz guitar forums too.

I love my overtones heavy guitars AND complex chords and never felt any problem with this, even a 7b9#9b13 chord.

Overtones have never been a problem with piano, why would it be a problem with a flat top guitar ?

Is there an explanation ? More odd overtones than piano ?

Anyway, at the end it's just personal isn't it?

[Oldguy64]

Fundamentals....with "shimmer"....

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by xuoham

I don't understand too much this theory about less overtones for complex harmonies. Pretty current on jazz guitar forums too.

I love my overtones heavy guitars AND complex chords and never felt any problem with this, even a 7b9#9b13 chord.

Overtones have never been a problem with piano, why would it be a problem with a flat top guitar ?

Is there an explanation ? More odd overtones than piano ?

Anyway, at the end it's just personal isn't it?

Yes, but everything is personal in the end - right?

Long lasting overtones DO NOT work well for Old-time or Bluegrass. Not for me, anyway. Chord changes come very fast as to the hammering rolls of a banjo. Ringing remnants of big G chord don't sound good when we have shifted chords 3 or 4 times to a D or Em. The overtones of past notes "step on" the notes being played.

Ever see a grand piano playing in a Bluegrass band?

Long, thick and lush sustain is desirable for some music and styles, but not for all of them. Hope this makes sense to you.

[PTC Bernie]

It has to have good fundamentals first and foremost. My issue with Taylor, ever since the switch to the NT neck, is that they changed the Taylor Sound and the emphasis seems to be on harmonics to the point where they overpower the fundamentals.

I realize it's a personal preference issue, but their current sound is not for me.

[McShepherd]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Ever see a grand piano playing in a Bluegrass band?

Yup. And even with the excellent musicians involved, it takes a bit of adjusting the ear (at least for me). Music starts 3 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUD8bWGf1Y

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by HAMFIST

…Gotta have one of each.

Hi HF...

And I do own one of each (plus a third variant as well).

But if you make me take only one, I'll opt for the Olson Dreadnought, East Indian Rosewood/Cedar (which is the more lush sound of your two options).

I play all flesh finger style, and I play live without effects (not even reverb/delay) and this can cut down on overzealous overtones. So where some who primarily strum may try to avoid the complex sound, I tend to welcome it.

[xuoham]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Yes, but everything is personal in the end - right?

Ever see a grand piano playing in a Bluegrass band?
.

Haha, yeah, i guess i forgot the orchestral balance thing in between !
That sure isn't "personal in the end" lol

My bad !
Too much into solo guitar, i guess ...
And i play with almost no nails ...

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by McShepherd

Yup. And even with the excellent musicians involved, it takes a bit of adjusting the ear (at least for me). Music starts 3 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBUD8bWGf1Y

Of course, I aint no Ricky Skaggs or Bruce Hornsby.

Even in this example, the piano isn't used as the primary rhythm instrument, but as embellishment. Lots of single note runs, almost banjo-like. This has more of a Celtic feel to me than Bluegrass. It is a cool collaboration though. I have seen this before and forgotten all about it. Thanks for the post!

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by xuoham

Haha, yeah, i guess i forgot the orchestral balance thing in between !
That sure isn't "personal in the end" lol

My bad !
Too much into solo guitar, i guess ...
And i play with almost no nails ...

& then McSheperd proves me wrong.

Nah, we each do our own thing with guitar. My way ain't better than yours - just different. As long as we're making music and having fun it's ALL good.

Roy

[Beat Up G]

A complex, lush sounding guitar can have both depending on attack and muting and I find the fundamentals to be 'prettier' vs. stark.