Fishman Rare Earth Single-Coil vs. Fishman Rare Earth Humbucking vs. Baggs M1A

[jacm81]

I've been using a Baggs M1A pickup for about a year now and I find that in live situations it always sounds a little muddy to me, like the bass overpowers everything and just keeps ringing. My guitar has a pretty bassy sound and I play exclusively in open D tuning, so that's probably part of it, but I'm thinking that either a single a single coil pickup or just a different humbucking pickup that doesn't pick up as much body vibration as the Baggs, might be better for me. For years, with my old guitar, I used the Lawrence A300 single coil pickup and always like how clear and bright the sound was. So, I'm thinking that maybe one of the Fishman pickups might be the way to go. Has anyone used both the single coil and humbucking Fishman on the same guitar? How do they compare? How do either of them compare to the Baggs? Thanks.

[weiner71]

I've had both the single coil and humbucking fishman, both were too trebly for my fingerstyle/slide play. It took a lot of EQ to take that off. Have you tried adjusting the pole pieces on the M1? Adjusting any EQ? Also are you getting any feedback Bass?

[GibbyPrague]

I have a Fishman rare earth blend, which combines the humbucker with an internal mike which you can then blend. Id also consider that one as it really delivers a fine tone.

[jacm81]

Originally Posted by weiner71

I've had both the single coil and humbucking fishman, both were too trebly for my fingerstyle/slide play. It took a lot of EQ to take that off. Have you tried adjusting the pole pieces on the M1? Adjusting any EQ? Also are you getting any feedback Bass?

I've lowered the bass strings pole pieces as low as they go and raised the high ones all the way up. I'm running it through a D-TAR Soltice preamp and even with the bass turned all the way down the low strings are still too boomy for my taste. I'm not too concerned about getting a warm tone from the magnetic pickup (I also have a K&K Pure Mini installed and I use an external mic, neither of which are causing the problem) I just want some serious definition and clarity, especially on the high strings. I've experienced no bass feedback.

[jacm81]

Originally Posted by GibbyPrague

I have a Fishman rare earth blend, which combines the humbucker with an internal mike which you can then blend. Id also consider that one as it really delivers a fine tone.

I might, except I already have the K&K Pure Mini and an external mic to warm things up a little and I'm really trying to just get more of the pure string sound, without so much of the body's resonance.

[guitaniac]

Some folks have panned it, but I really think the inexpensive Lace California has a pretty (for a mag) high end. It doesn't have pole pieces, but neither do the particular Fishman pickups which you mentioned.

According to the GearWire vid, the California is a "noiseless" single coil design. There's no mention of that on Lace's product page.

[jacm81]

Well, I went ahead and ordered a Single Coil Rare Earth. I'll let you know how it works out.

[tomana]

Originally Posted by jalbert1

Well, I went ahead and ordered a Single Coil Rare Earth. I'll let you know how it works out.

Was going to HIGHLY recommend the Baggs M80 but you already made your choice

[lschwart]

Maybe the Fishman will work better for you, but I think it might be worth thinking more about what's going on with the M1a in your system first. One thing I notice in what you're saying is that you're trying to solve a string definition problem by lowering the lower poles. But that's only going to take away string defintion and bias the pickup toward the top's vibrations. Maybe what you want to do is raise the poles and adjust the level and the EQ compensate as you add the string defintion to the mic and K&K sound. The Fishman doesn't sense the top at all, so it might work, but that doesn't mean you can't get the same thing from the pickup you've got.

The top-muting properties of the M1a can also be muted by placing thin bits of cork between the top and the side clamps of the pickup that fasten at the edges of the soundhole.

Another issue (and this might be in favor of the Fishman anyway) could be a phase problem between the way the M1a is sensing the top and the way the K&K is sensing it. That could cause muddiness if certain frequencies are cancelling out. Again, raising the poles, using cork, or getting a mag without top sensing properties will help with this problem.

Louis

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by lschwart

Maybe the Fishman will work better for you, but I think it might be worth thinking more about what's going on with the M1a in your system first. One thing I notice in what you're saying is that you're trying to solve a string definition problem by lowering the lower poles. But that's only going to take away string defintion and bias the pickup toward the top's vibrations. Maybe what you want to do is raise the poles and adjust the level and the EQ compensate as you add the string defintion to the mic and K&K sound. The Fishman doesn't sense the top at all, so it might work, but that doesn't mean you can't get the same thing from the pickup you've got.

The top-muting properties of the M1a can also be muted by placing thin bits of cork between the top and the side clamps of the pickup that fasten at the edges of the soundhole.

Another issue (and this might be in favor of the Fishman anyway) could be a phase problem between the way the M1a is sensing the top and the way the K&K is sensing it. That could cause muddiness if certain frequencies are cancelling out. Again, raising the poles, using cork, or getting a mag without top sensing properties will help with this problem.

Louis

FWIW, the Baggs folks have mentioned that the M1 only responds to top vibrations from about 700Hz on up. The M80, by comparison, responds to top vibrations from 40Hz on up.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

FWIW, the Baggs folks have mentioned that the M1 only responds to top vibrations from about 700Hz on up. The M80, by comparison, responds to top vibrations from 40Hz on up.

Interesting. I suppose that means that in this case, the top vibrations might not have anything to do with the excess bass part of the problem. They're only muddying the low mids, perhaps. Might have an effect overall, though. The M80 would possibly present more of a problem in this case?

Jalbert1: have you tried taking the low pole-pieces out entirely?

Louis

[Tony Done]

M1A, no contest - I have one. I had a Fishman RE SC and kept it a week. I thought the string-to-string balance was dreadful, the second string way too hot. That was a long time ago, maybe they are better now, but once bitten.....

[kellysintrouble]

Of the three, I like the single coil Fishman, it's not passive, but has no volume control...I have all three, the M1 is most acoustic sounding, the Humbucking fishman is very good,,,but their single coil is edgy, and cutting, and sounds alive, if not acoustic alive, then just lively. You made a good choice, cut the mids, boost the bass, and the highs will just sing. Peace

[Mayfair]

Everyone's chimed in on the pickups...but I'm curious, do you love the sound of the guitar when it's not plugged in? I'm not accusing you of this, but I've met so many people who try to EQ out the negative components of their guitars live - like when I'm working on a recording session with someone, whether as a producer, engineer, or session player...and they say, "Don't worry about it, we can fix it in ProTools (or enter any variation on this statement)." I cringe!

I recently ordered a Rare Earth Blend and wasn't able to give it a thorough test run until after the return grace period. I've used many different pickups over the years and have recently seen some of my favorite performers using them...the verdict's still out. The first night I wasn't impressed but to it's defense, it had been a long day and I'd maybe slept 2 hrs in 48 at that point. Last night I spent more time with it, adjusting the mic and trying to optimize the tone before throwing any EQ in the mix. I was pretty happy with it and I hope it'll be even better tonight.

My only initial complaint is how long the lead on it is - what the heck am I supposed to do with all of that cable on the inside?! And, why didn't they design it with a quick release like the LR Baggs systems? If I keep it, I'll most likely splice the lead and add a connector so I can pop it out when I'm not performing live. Since I use all of my guitars for recording and live sessions, having that sucker in there all the time just won't work.

I had the M80 for awhile - it's a nice pickup but I kept hitting it with my pick and fingers. I had the same problem with the other M series as well. They forced me to shift my playing style whereas I didn't notice that with the Fishman.

Ah...and so the journey to natural amplified tone continues. Has anyone tried the new Amulet?

[Tony Done]

You could try adjusting the pole pieces to address the bass-heavy problem - lower the bass ones and raise the others. I've added a passive tone control to the M1A, to take off the bright edge and I've also put damping pads on it, as mentioned in another post. You can also angle the pickup in the soundhole to alter the distance between the strings and the pole pieces, though you can't achieve a lot this way.

Just a thought for you. I would not buy any soundhole pickup that didn't have adjustable pole pieces. Individual acoustic strings, unlike electric guitar strings have widely different magnetic properties, so getting good string-to-string balance takes careful adjustment, and I wouldn't trust anyone else's ideas on how it should be for me. I bought a Fishman RE single coil years ago, and traded it within a week because the string-to-string balance was IMO dreadful (and I'm not overstating that) - the 2nd string was way too hot for my tastes.