#46
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I find it to be a bit ridiculous . . the equivalent of saying "anybody can be a competent football player as long as he puts forth enough effort". It'd be the same thing as me saying "anybody can be a competent engineer if he tries hard enough". I just don't believe that. |
#47
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The story goes that Duane Allman learned to play slide in two hours with a Cloricidin bottle given to him by his brother Gregg. I've been back into guitar for about 3 1/2 years playing 2 plus hours per day. I am 65 years old and I am happy with my progress. I always try to set the bar a little higher and I am currently studying with a talented teacher with a classical background. I believe that with a lot of hard work I will become a competent player in 10,000 hours or whatever. I also believe that you could put me in a closet with a Cloricidin bottle for the rest of my life and I may never play slide as well as Duane Allman did.
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#48
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Practise, to the point of obsession, dawn til dusk, 24/7/365. That's what makes people like Tommy Emmanuel as proficient as they are. I don't believe anyone is actually gifted, just driven.
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Faith Mars FRMG Faith Neptune FKN Epiphone Masterbilt Texan |
#49
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I think to be great you need more than talent. Talent is essential but talent is cheap as they say in Hollywood.
According to a friend who worked with the Wrecking Crew, in Los Angeles there are 500 top notch guitar players and 5 of them are getting 90 percent of the session work. He said there are also another 5,000 who are really good A- players. My buddy was one of the 5 and he compared it to being a gunslinger in the old west. It's highly competitive. Besides talent you also need inspiration. You need to be driven. You need to be at the right place at the right time. Inspiration can take an average artist to the top of a mountain. By the way, the word "talent" is historically the name of a Roman gold coin. In other words "talent" in ancient Rome meant "money." It's interesting to look up where words come from. We use the word "talent" a lot without thinking about what it actually means and where it comes from. "Inspiration" is another interesting word. It comes from Latin and means "divine guidance." When you put your heart and soul into your music that's when magic happens. Just my 2 cents. At a certain level in the music industry everyone can play the right notes. It's a given. It takes much more than that to succeed at music. |
#50
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Agreed. But you also need more than "10,000 hrs".
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#51
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Talent + 10,000 hours + Inspiration + The right place and time = You get a shot at the big time. (And you'd better deliver.)
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#52
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I think there are naturals, all around naturals and niche naturals. How good they are depends on other factors, such as drive, desire and exposure. I also know for a fact that there are people that will never connect, that have no talent regardless of their desire. Just think of Charles Barkley the former NBA star and his golf swing.
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The Blond The Brunette The Red Head The Old Lady Goldilocks Flipper "Sometimes I play a song I never heard before" Thelonious Monk |
#53
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i don't believe in naturals. everything takes work and nothing is easy! one thing i do believe is that you have a better chance of being really good if you start young.
play music!
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2014 Martin 00015M 2009 Martin 0015M 2008 Martin HD28 2007 Martin 000-18GE 2006 Taylor 712 2006 Fender Parlor GDP100 1978 Fender F65 1968 Gibson B25-12N Various Electrics |
#54
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Sorry I haven't read through 4 pages of replies. I'm sure I am agreeing with what at least several have said. Of course, as with every area of our lives, different people are gifted with different strengths, and weaknesses. Some are "naturals" at cooking, or navigating without help, or doing math in their heads, or composing or playing music. This comes as no surprise.
The great thing about playing guitar is that one does not have to be a "natural" to enjoy it thoroughly, or even for their audiences to enjoy their playing. I've known quite a few people who learned to play guitar well despite their not being naturally gifted with it. On the other hand, I've know a few who seemed to be gifted with the ability who squandered that ability by not being willing to develop it. On the third hand, if there was such a thing, is Blake, my 11-yr. old student, son of two professional musicians, who would rather be playing drums, but who has practicing guitar about 30 minutes a day most days since I started him a year ago. The kid doesn't have to be told when in the measure to change chords - he hears it. I can ask him to play a familiar Christmas carol in G, C, D, A, or E, and he gets it 90% right, sometimes missing on a ii or vi chord. He's a natural! I identify with him, as I've always heard such things readily, too. I don't have perfect pitch, but it's close enough for me to begin each of my songs for my master's degree voice recital without someone's giving me the pitch. (None were a cappella, so I had to be right. I was!) cotten |
#55
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2013 Martin HD-28V 2014 Martin D-42 1995 Yamaha FG-461S Baby Taylor (spruce) La Patrie Concert (cedar/mahogany) Assorted Strats and Teles |
#56
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It does take some natural talent to get beyond a certain level. If practice was all that was necessary to be an excellent player, there'd be a whole lot more professional players. Same goes for singing. Some folks just don't have the talent to sing. They are tone deaf. Those same folks don't necessarily make good instrumentalists, because they can't hear when they are out of tune.
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2016 Martin D-28 Marquis 2017 Martin D-18 2016 Taylor 416ce-LTD cedar/walnut 2017 Eastman E10 OM |
#57
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And I am with you and I am there too. Sometimes I think it takes me way to long to learn something that on paper looks so easy. A slow four chord Tom Petty song has been kicking my butt for over a week now. Those are the times I wish for just a little more talent to go with my dogged determination and practice. |
#58
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So I do have to agree with you. Regarding guitar, it seems to me that a person can enjoy playing at whatever level they are capable of. Not everybody will have that mindset. Some will give up because they don't feel they are learning fast enough (by what measure???) or that they believe (or realize ?) they will never reach a level of competence that would satisfy them. On the other hand, I have seen some folks who play and sing terribly, who just bang on the guitar and bellow, and have a great time. With engineering, it is rather easy to measure - either a person can do the work and get through college, or not. After graduation, either a person can get a task done within whatever time is scheduled, and done correctly, or not. With guitar, especially as a hobby, it really isn't "black and white". There are too many human variables such as what does "competence" mean to a given player? Who says whether a person is taking too long to learn some aspect of playing? Nobody (as a hobby player) is going to get fired or flunked for not measuring up to some standard. There are singer/songwriters that many people enjoy and even revere, that just sound like bellowing to me. There are many of these whom I sincerely wish would not sing. To those who revere that artist, the person is considered competent at what s/he is doing, while to me, that person is not. So personal taste then comes into the picture, making "right vs wrong" judgments essentially a moot point. Neither view is right or wrong, but instead personal opinion. So, the bottom line, it seems to me, is whether a given person (as a hobbyist) is enjoying the experience of playing guitar or not. This doesn't make your points wrong and mine right (or vice versa), but instead throws into the mix, the human aspect of infinite variability, given the hobby nature that many of us approach the guitar with. Tony
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“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.” — Franz Schubert "Alexa, where's my stuff?" - Anxiously waiting... |
#59
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Tony
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“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.” — Franz Schubert "Alexa, where's my stuff?" - Anxiously waiting... |
#60
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Not only do I believe it, but I've known a few. It is amazing to be in their presence.
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