Martin 00L-17 with LR Baggs Lyric have to majorly EQ for decent sound

[n388mm]

Hello everybody! Sorry for yet another acoustic pickup thread, but I've been doing a good bit of trial and error to get to this point and would like a bit of additional advice.

I have a Martin 00L-17 which I absolutely LOVE the un-amplified sound of. I use Martin Retro Light strings.

My current signal chain is Guitar > LR Baggs Session DI > Empress ParaEQ > Fishman Loudbox Artist

When I originally got the guitar I threw in a LR Baggs M1A and wasn't thrilled with the tone.

I did a whole bunch of research on which pickup to replace the M1A with and came down to 3 finalists:

• LR Baggs Lyric
• K&K Western Mini
• Dazzo

Of those three, I was leaning towards the Dazzo and was about to pull the trigger when I stumbled across a stellar deal on a gently-used LR Baggs Lyric. So I figured it was worth a shot.

I got it installed and hooked it up and OOB directly into the Fishman Amp I could tell there was potential.

After tweaking settings over and over again, I finally narrowed down ones that to my ear sound the best.. but I have some concerns.

On the Lyric I put Volume Knob at Max and Presence at about 30ish%
On the Session DI I have Gain at 5, Saturate at 3, and Comp EQ at 5 with Notch at ~290Hz and HPF at 80Hz
On the Empress ParaEQ I do a Wide Q -3dB cut just above 3kHz and a Narrow Q -10dB cut at about 500Hz
On the Fishman Loudbox I leave all EQs at noon, just a little bit of reverb.

This gets me a clean natural sound that for the most part I'm happy with.

My concerns:
If I don't do the -10dB cut at ~500Hz there's this boomy mid range sound that muddies up the sound.
If I don't do the cut at 3kHz it sounds a bit metallic.
If I don't set the notch I'll get occasional feedback on the A string.
When I really hammer down on some chords it gets muddy no matter what.
When I capo the sound profile will sometimes change and i'll have to tweak either the notch, saturate, or the frequency on my ParaEQ. (I use a capo A LOT)

Am I just over thinking this or should I keep searching for something better?
Would the Dazzo's fix the mid range boomy sound without needing an EQ?

I know we're all in search of the magical pickup that requires no pedals, eq, and sounds like our acoustic instrument. But I just don't know if I can do better.

One final note. Ideally, I'd like to stay away from a Aura or ToneDexter requirement just for ease of use. I play very small gigs and would love just to bring my Guitar, DI, and Amp. And as I said, I love the sound of my guitar acoustically, so I don't really think an IR will give me that sound I'm looking for (unless I build a custom one myself like Cuki).

Thanks y'all!

[Vancebo]

When I owned the Lyric in a few guitars. I was originally thrilled just by having a natural sound with the ease of a single source pickup. From the beginning, I spent copious amounts of time dialing knobs instead of playing. I got to the point where I could get a good sound with the Venue but it was sketchy at times. Eventually I went to the Anthems and eventually the Dazzo. The Dazzo is now in five guitars and a Ukelele. Sometimes it sounds goons flat. Other times I add a mild bass cut or treble boost. But that’s it. No more than one adjustment.

I wouldn’t count out the option to try Tonedexter. It can be your only DI. I would have something besides the Lyric though for your pickup source. The videos James has posted here seem excellent.

[n388mm]

Yeah, during the time I spent researching I've read quite a few of your posts. I feel like I know your life story in regards to the path you went with pickups.

In a good way of course.

You were a big reason Dazzo was on the top of my list. I actually had a back and forth with Teddy in regards to my guitar and he suggested either the 70s or 80s depending on how much bass I want (since it's a smaller body 00 he wasn't 100% sure without seeing the guitar). I wish I was closer to his location as I'd just bring it by.

My concern with the Dazzo is my ability to install them myself for the most optimal sound. I'm fairly handy and do woodworking so it's not the act of installing, it's placing them right to achieve the sound profile of my guitar.

Do Dazzo's really bring out the "top-wood characteristics" of your guitar as well as I'm hoping for? In your opinion should I go with a 70 or 80 for a 00?

Or is it a pipe dream?

This is similar to most of the music I play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMCXkJ0CVi0

He actually uses a Lyric if I'm not mistaken (in a HD28) and at that show he was plugged into an Artist as well. (I'm sure front of house EQd his XLR Out some but in order to get a sound close to that like I said I have to EQ the heck out my signal)

It's funny cause I know that for the most part, the audience isn't going to care about a rouge frequency here and there, it's more of a internal perfectionist thing..

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I wouldn’t count out the option to try Tonedexter. It can be your only DI. I would have something besides the Lyric though for your pickup source. The videos James has posted here seem excellent.

I guess your right, I shouldn't completely rule it out, just don't really want to install a UST unless I have to. Have you tried Dazzo's with a Tone Dexter? I know Cuki has good luck with the Lyric and his roll-your-own IR, but again that's getting a bit to complex for what I'm looking for.

[stevecuss]

I mirror your experience with the Lyric. It required drastic EQ to get a usable sound. I was always blown away by how great it sounded and how well it cut through a full band, but yep, we had 2 or 3 spots where we reduced EQ by 10+ db. I don't recall the exact frequencies, but I think one was around 200hz and one was around 600hz.

My main beef with the Lyric was the lack of low end - it was fine in a full band, but a little thin for solo acoustic work.

Its a great pickup though, no question. Depends on the setting and application, I think.

Originally Posted by n388mm

Hello everybody! Sorry for yet another acoustic pickup thread, but I've been doing a good bit of trial and error to get to this point and would like a bit of additional advice.

I have a Martin 00L-17 which I absolutely LOVE the un-amplified sound of. I use Martin Retro Light strings.

My current signal chain is Guitar > LR Baggs Session DI > Empress ParaEQ > Fishman Loudbox Artist

When I originally got the guitar I threw in a LR Baggs M1A and wasn't thrilled with the tone.

I did a whole bunch of research on which pickup to replace the M1A with and came down to 3 finalists:

• LR Baggs Lyric
• K&K Western Mini
• Dazzo

Of those three, I was leaning towards the Dazzo and was about to pull the trigger when I stumbled across a stellar deal on a gently-used LR Baggs Lyric. So I figured it was worth a shot.

I got it installed and hooked it up and OOB directly into the Fishman Amp I could tell there was potential.

After tweaking settings over and over again, I finally narrowed down ones that to my ear sound the best.. but I have some concerns.

On the Lyric I put Volume Knob at Max and Presence at about 30ish%
On the Session DI I have Gain at 5, Saturate at 3, and Comp EQ at 5 with Notch at ~290Hz and HPF at 80Hz
On the Empress ParaEQ I do a Wide Q -3dB cut just above 3kHz and a Narrow Q -10dB cut at about 500Hz
On the Fishman Loudbox I leave all EQs at noon, just a little bit of reverb.

This gets me a clean natural sound that for the most part I'm happy with.

My concerns:
If I don't do the -10dB cut at ~500Hz there's this boomy mid range sound that muddies up the sound.
If I don't do the cut at 3kHz it sounds a bit metallic.
If I don't set the notch I'll get occasional feedback on the A string.
When I really hammer down on some chords it gets muddy no matter what.
When I capo the sound profile will sometimes change and i'll have to tweak either the notch, saturate, or the frequency on my ParaEQ. (I use a capo A LOT)

Am I just over thinking this or should I keep searching for something better?
Would the Dazzo's fix the mid range boomy sound without needing an EQ?

I know we're all in search of the magical pickup that requires no pedals, eq, and sounds like our acoustic instrument. But I just don't know if I can do better.

One final note. Ideally, I'd like to stay away from a Aura or ToneDexter requirement just for ease of use. I play very small gigs and would love just to bring my Guitar, DI, and Amp. And as I said, I love the sound of my guitar acoustically, so I don't really think an IR will give me that sound I'm looking for (unless I build a custom one myself like Cuki).

Thanks y'all!

[n388mm]

I'm actually pretty happy with the low end response I'm getting. Then again, I am playing on a 00 so it naturally doesn't have super boomy lows.

Setting the HPF at 80Hz also clears it up a bit.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by n388mm

Yeah, during the time I spent researching I've read quite a few of your posts. I feel like I know your life story in regards to the path you went with pickups.

In a good way of course.

You were a big reason Dazzo was on the top of my list. I actually had a back and forth with Teddy in regards to my guitar and he suggested either the 70s or 80s depending on how much bass I want (since it's a smaller body 00 he wasn't 100% sure without seeing the guitar). I wish I was closer to his location as I'd just bring it by.

My concern with the Dazzo is my ability to install them myself for the most optimal sound. I'm fairly handy and do woodworking so it's not the act of installing, it's placing them right to achieve the sound profile of my guitar.

Do Dazzo's really bring out the "top-wood characteristics" of your guitar as well as I'm hoping for? In your opinion should I go with a 70 or 80 for a 00?

Or is it a pipe dream?

This is similar to most of the music I play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMCXkJ0CVi0

He actually uses a Lyric if I'm not mistaken (in a HD28) and at that show he was plugged into an Artist as well. (I'm sure front of house EQd his XLR Out some but in order to get a sound close to that like I said I have to EQ the heck out my signal)

It's funny cause I know that for the most part, the audience isn't going to care about a rouge frequency here and there, it's more of a internal perfectionist thing..



I guess your right, I shouldn't completely rule it out, just don't really want to install a UST unless I have to. Have you tried Dazzo's with a Tone Dexter? I know Cuki has good luck with the Lyric and his roll-your-own IR, but again that's getting a bit to complex for what I'm looking for.

I can make a IR for your Lyric if you want. All you need is a 2 channel audio interface and a mic. Then you can try with the computer before you decide anything..

[n388mm]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I can make a IR for your Lyric if you want. All you need is a 2 channel audio interface and a mic. Then you can try with the computer before you decide anything..

That'd be dope! Thank you very much for the offer. I didn't know you were still making IRs for people.

Only mic I have is a SM58, would that be fine for an IR?

Also what would be the signal path you want? Clean Lyric in one channel, and Mic in the other?

In your experience does using a proper IR help reduce the need of EQing the Lyric signal? Or would it still be needed?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by n388mm

That'd be dope! Thank you very much for the offer. I didn't know you were still making IRs for people.

Only mic I have is a SM58, would that be fine for an IR?

Also what would be the signal path you want? Clean Lyric in one channel, and Mic in the other?

In your experience does using a proper IR help reduce the need of EQing the Lyric signal? Or would it still be needed?

I do it for fun. It should not prevent you from buying a commercial product (like Tonedexter) if you like it.

SM58 will be fine.

It solves 99% problems of the Lyric. You can still EQ afterward or include the EQ into the IR file.

Send me your email with a pm. I'll send you the procedure.

Cuki

[n388mm]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I do it for fun. It should not prevent you from buying a commercial product (like Tonedexter) if you like it.

SM58 will be fine.

It solves 99% problems of the Lyric. You can still EQ afterward or include the EQ into the IR file.

Send me your email with a pm. I'll send you the procedure.

Cuki

Oh for sure, it's just hard for me to spend ToneDexter money on something I'm unsure of.

Okay, PM sent.