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[fitness1]

How about this - let him do the plugs with the understanding that if you are not happy you'll split the difference on a new board at 125.00.

After reading this today - I was playing and noticed (after all these years) that I don't even pay any attention to the fingerboard markers, only the side dots. I guess that's the reason I have all my customs built with blank fretboards. Only the Eastman has dots in the typical place......so it wasn't until I played that I had the realization.

I can't imagine how the difference between having 1 or 2 inlays/dots at the 7th fret would have any effect on playing.

[IndianHillMike]

I'll chime in as a builder as well -- if it's ebony it should be quite easy to make completely invisible. Some ebony, like Macassar, can have a lot more color variation and would be more difficult, but in most cases black is black (especially under finish).

Mike

[The Bard Rocks]

If you had clearly specified something and he agreed to do it that way but screwed up, you have every right to refuse it and to ask him to put in a "correct" fretboard, or just take the guitar back. He didn't deliver as agreed. If it were me (I'm usually not hard-nosed), I would accept his suggestion, but only upon approval with the understanding that if I am still dissatisfied, he has to do the new fretboard. That is, if you are wiling to wait or are willing to give up the instrument. Me, I'd look for the compromise that keeps everyone as happy as possible.

[mercy]

hmm, lots to think about. Building on Roland's idea of being happy, the only scenario I can think of that Id be happy with now is replacing the fingerboard or neck. I dont know how Ill feel about it tomorrow. I appreciate all the ideas to consider.

[tadol]

Put it this way - if he’d noticed it himself, and patched and reinlayed the fingerboard without telling you, would you still be upset? Could you be, if you didn’t have someone else point it out? What if you’d finally noticed it, 3 months, or a year, or 2 years down the line? Mistakes get made all the time, by everyone, and the best craftspeople are the ones who hide them the best. Ask the repair specialists, who work the most on the rarest and most valuable instruments - You think mistakes were never made? Hardly - Most are rarely noticed, except by equally talented craftspeople who get the opportunity to work on them -

It seems a pretty minor thing - I’d let it be - good karma all around -

[N K Forster]

This is not a complicated fix. Let the maker fix the dots. And the sooner the better.

The longer you deliberate on this, the more stress you will cause both of you. The sooner you send the guitar back, the sooner you can get it back and forget about it and enjoy the guitar.

Let them do the work. Then the problem is theirs, not yours. And it isn't a big fix. Anyone who says or thinks it is, hasn't had enough woodwork experience. Several makers, including me have chimed in to say so. Nip this in the bud, and send it back.

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[TomB'sox]

I was just about to say what Nigel said....you have had 4 builders, sponsors on this site, all say it is an easy fix, will be invisible and not be an issue...just sayin. Yes, an error was made, but it is fixable, the only question now seems to be if you are going to allow that to happen or not.

[mirwa]

Sorry dis-agree with almost everyone, money was paid for a custom build, custom build had specifics detailed, guitar was not built to those specifics and the builder was according to yourself at fault.

The builder should remove the board and fit a new one, for a luthier it's not a big deal, cost to him in materials is under 30 bucks, time to remove / replace and redo is under a couple of hrs work, if he is confident you won't see any patch repairs, then that's his call to patch it, the end result should be you personally cannot see the stuff up

Steve

[redir]

Well, I can tell ya what I would do... I would remove the board and replace it if that is what you demanded. It can be fixed very easily as others had mentioned and trust me we make mistakes and fix them all the time and you would never know it. But in this case the cat is out of the bag. I would try real hard to convince you that it can indeed make it 100% invisible and you would never notice it, but if you demanded that it gets a new board then I would eat it and do it right.

So it's really up to you. Personally I think you should just let him fix it because it can be done. Just think of how many guitars out there in the wild right now have mistakes on it that nobody knows about (just about every single one of them). So yours won't be any different.

You would most certainly not have to disclose that in a sale in the future.

Originally Posted by redir

...Just think of how many guitars out there in the wild right now have mistakes on it that nobody knows about (just about every single one of them)...

Absolutely. I'd be willing to bet good money I can find some sort of imperfection on nearly any guitar made - factory or individual luthier. Factories are more likely to effect a repair like this by replacing the board, mostly because it's quicker to replace a "part" which is how they view fretboards. An individual might wish to avoid wasting a good ebony fretboard, which I can appreciate. Nothing in life is perfect. I'll settle for very, very good most of the time.

Regardless, I agree with Steve. The fretboard was not built as ordered, from what we know here, and the client needs to be satisfied with the end result. If repairing the existing fretboard is done invisibly and that is satisfactory, then fine. If it's going to take a new fretboard, then it should be (happily) done without cost to the client.

I don't build guitars, but I do provide professional services as an engineer. If we make a mistake, we do what's necessary to make it right in so far as that is possible, even to our own harm in terms of time and cost. I expect the same from others.

[Wolfram]

This is a tricky one - it sounds like the OP specified the dot pattern in an email and the builder either missed it or filed the info away and then didn't think to pull it out when working on the fingerboard... shouldn't happen, but it's easily done, especially when you're a single-person business potentially dealing with many customers / builds at different stages at once.

For the only custom build I've had so far (which had a lot of customisation - not just cosmetics, but structural build features too) I put a spreadsheet together which the luthier and I both worked on, so we had a single definitive document detailing all the specs in one place.

Originally Posted by mirwa

The builder should remove the board and fit a new one, for a luthier it's not a big deal, cost to him in materials is under 30 bucks, time to remove / replace and redo is under a couple of hrs work, if he is confident you won't see any patch repairs, then that's his call to patch it, the end result should be you personally cannot see the stuff up.

I think if I were the builder I would probably remove and replace the fingerboard - the relationship with a guitar can be deep, and whether or not drilling out and replacing the markers in the correct configuration is visible or not, the OP will know it's been done and that it was a patch-up - that may or not be an issue for him. But I think you've massively underestimated the amount of work needed to do this - particularly if the finish on the neck extends over the edge of the fingerboard, as many do:

1. Steam/remove existing fingerboard from neck and (depending how it is built) guitar top. This may require the whole neck to be removed to do it safely.
2. (repair finish damage to the neck / top, depending on the construction?)
3. Check other glue joints for any weakness introduced by removing the fingerboard
4. Rough-cut new fingerboard blank to size, squared
5. Cut new fret slots
6. Fine shape new fingerboard to neck shape
7. Re-bind fingerboard (if necessary)
8. Reglue new fingerboard to neck and top
9. Refret new fingerboard
10. Dress new frets
11. (Refinish guitar neck?)
12. Re-setup new guitar

... not sure anyone could do all that in under two hours! Sounds more like a couple of days' work to me. And like any operation, I expect there is risk...

However, given the input from experienced luthiers on this thread, surely it would be a fair course of action to allow the luthier to carry out the 'patch' on the existing fingerboard and, if that is indeed invisible and satisfactory, move on. No guitar is perfect - every one has mistakes in it, and the ability of the luthier to repair or work around these is as important as being able to build the guitar in the first place - in fact, one excellent luthier once told me that it wasn't a guitar at all until it had claimed first blood from the builder!

Hope this can come to a satisfactory conclusion.

Cheers,
David

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Wolfram Slides

I think you've massively underestimated the amount of work needed to do this

Just for note, not at all under estimated, those of us that do it all day every day for a living, it's a really simple job. To clarify however, I am referring to total work time the luthier would have to put back into the job over a day or two, not turn around time.

Some examples of timing

The original board is no good, no steaming required, we simply machine it off, shaping and slotting a fingerboard from raw wood in a dedicated workshop is a 15 minute job, belt sander (commercial) will shape the edges in a minute or two, profile shaping the fretboard radius is 30 seconds on a profile jig that swings over the belt sander, cross cutting fretslots with radial saw is maybe 5 minutes taking it easy, fret markers only minutes to get done.

If the luthier has cnc, even easier, re run the fretboard program and walk away.

Having binding makes it easier to cut the board away and not damage any finish as you machine the board away and leave the binding intact, not having binding, may take a little longer just to blend any finish over the new board.

Steve

[grosskate]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Sorry dis-agree with almost everyone, money was paid for a custom build, custom build had specifics detailed, guitar was not built to those specifics and the builder was according to yourself at fault.

The builder should remove the board and fit a new one, for a luthier it's not a big deal, cost to him in materials is under 30 bucks, time to remove / replace and redo is under a couple of hrs work, if he is confident you won't see any patch repairs, then that's his call to patch it, the end result should be you personally cannot see the stuff up

Steve

I agree with you here. When you make a mistake you account for it, and do what it takes to satisfy the customer. If the client doesn't agree with the solution (because it's a patch and should never be there to start with), you don't tell someone to pay for your own mistake.

To the OP :

Either you agree for the patch solution if it's indeed invisible and can cope with the fact that you paid something that's got a patch, and just move on with it.

Or you just refuse and tell the luthier to replace the fingerboard as it's his own mistake and not yours to assume the consequences.

That's just my opinion here, but I don't find neither nice nor professional to put you under the pressure of almost "forcing" you to accept the patch saying that otherwise, it would cost YOU $250 if you wanted a fingerboard replacement. That's the Luthier's mistake here, not yours to bear.


Hope you find a convenient solution that soothe your mind. Good luck !

[mercy]

Thank you all for your input. what a wonderful group of people. Ill be responding to the builder in a few minutes so I guess this is the end of this thread.

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by mercy

A well known builder has just finished a guitar for me but has put the fret markers in the wrong place. He is suggesting drilling them out, plugging and redrilling in the correct positions. I don't see this as an acceptable solution. Am I incorrect?

I wouldn't take that. New fretboard made properly