Mic tube pre-amp?

[BoneDigger]

Right now my recording setup consists of a computer with a DAW, audio interface, and mics. Would adding a tube pre add anything important to my setup? What would I gain and is it worth it?

Todd

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Right now my recording setup consists of a computer with a DAW, audio interface, and mics. Would adding a tube pre add anything important to my setup? What would I gain and is it worth it?

Todd

Possibly but depends and it is very specific to what you have now and what you might be considering spending on a mic pre/s....... So you are using the pre/s in the interface ? If yes, what interface specifically?

In a very generalized sense there are two things which basically ring true as far as a recording chain. It "can" be a matter of the weakest link and the further down the line from the source, theoretically the less significant an upgrade will be. The latter being one reason you read over and over again about "room treatment" on this forum because if you are mic'ing, the room is the source of the source.


That said I personally for example in fact use a tube Mic Pre an A Designs MP2A. Which I prefer over actually the very good SS pre's in my interface an Avid OMNI

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Right now my recording setup consists of a computer with a DAW, audio interface, and mics. Would adding a tube pre add anything important to my setup? What would I gain and is it worth it?

Todd

If you are talking about a typical guitar store tinker-toy preamp with a tube somewhere in the circuit, you won't gain much if anything in the way of better sound. Different, yes. Better, no.

[alohachris]

Aloha Todd,

As inferred above, you MUST spend professional-level dough to receive the benefits AND QUALITY of a professional-level tube preamp. That goes for your entire recording signal chain as well. Ya don't want to mix quality studio grade gear with cheap, entry-level stuff. It kills headroom. The stuff marketed to guitarists is usually not in the pro-level studio category. What improvements are you seeking to your current sound, Todd?

Kev's A Designs MP-2A is a great tube preamp as is my Pendulum MDP-1a tube preamp. But both are over $2K. I don't always prefer tube preamps to solid state, but the MDP-1a was the best I've ever heard/auditioned in combo w/ the mic's I use. However, the sonic differences are very subtle at best among QUALITY preamps but there ARE noticeable differences with different preamp/mic combo's. Of course, I would NOT combine such a preamp into a signal chain w/ a mix of other entry-level gear (like $100 interfaces & mic's) - counter-productive.

BTW, the quality (or lack thereof) of the onboard mic preamps of your inexpensive, entry-level Tascam interface unit is OK for beginners. But maybe it's time to move up to an RME or Apogee (if you're on a Mac) interface. They both have excellent onboard preamps & are not that expensive. FMR Audio also provides a nice, basic preamp that's very good @ an affordable price. Ya know Todd, it may be that your interface's poor onboard mic pre's may actually be one of the weak links in your current rig. FWIW, I use Apogee interfaces in my recording signal chain. Love 'em.

For recording my vocals, I prefer to use a quality vocal tube LDC mic, no matter the style of preamp. Just a preference for my voice. I record solo acoustic guitar using a matched pair of high end SDC's in stereo. Mic choice makes a larger difference in sound than preamp choice, IMO, as long as your signal chain is planned using quality, complementary elements. Cheaper preamps won't make a positive sonic difference at all, & in fact can make your recordings sound compressed, mid-rangey, noisy or un-open sounding. Ha! However, IN AN ADEOUATELY TREATED SPACE, the right preamp combined w/ the right mic of the same quality? That's the ticket! When both mic & preamp are high-end & matched to each other & then to the right voice or instrument....!

You should audition some tube & solid state preamps @ recording studio's (rent time) to hear the differences among the different types & levels of mic preamp's. Do the same w/ better quality interfaces. I used to rent several pre's at a time for a weekend (cheaper rates) & do shoot-outs on my home recording rig. That's why I chose the MDP-1a - after direct comparison on the same recording chain w/ other preamps in the same price range. That's also a great way to audition studio mic's.

Questions:
Exactly what elements (brands) are in your current recording signal chain?
What type of mic preamps are in your current interface?
What brands & price range of preamps have you been looking at?
What 'gains' would you expect to receive from a tube preamp - for vocals or guitar or what?

The answers may help us point you in a better direction.

Good Luck, Todd!

alohachris

PS: Todd, it goes without saying that a WELL-TREATED SPACE IS MANDATORY to achieve good, predictable recording results & to maximize ANY signal chain we put together. Put the money there first before you upgrade. Make your own DIY portable, broadband absorbers & experiment w/ different miking & mixing techniques - before you buy any new gear. alohachris-

[Bob Womack]

And one more opinion: If you can tell that your preamp isn't what it needs to be, perhaps the next consideration should be quality rather than type. I have had the privilege to work with a variety of preamps, tubed and solid state, and the biggest difference hasn't been between tube and solid state but between poor quality and high quality. Some of the finest sounding preamps I've worked with have been class-A, solid state Neve preamps. Of course, quality costs money. Fortunately there are some interesting middle-cost preamps. Among those is the FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp. Though not a sexy looking device, it is considered by many to be the best in its price range ($475). At the price you get two class-A preamp channels with extremely nice, uncolored sound and extremely high headroom.

There are others and everyone has his own favorite.

Bob

[muscmp]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

And one more opinion: If you can tell that your preamp isn't what it needs to be, perhaps the next consideration should be quality rather than type. I have had the privilege to work with a variety of preamps, tubed and solid state, and the biggest difference hasn't been between tube and solid state but between poor quality and high quality. Some of the finest sounding preamps I've worked with have been class-A, solid state Neve preamps. Of course, quality costs money. Fortunately there are some interesting middle-cost preamps. Among those is the FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp. Though not a sexy looking device, it is considered by many to be the best in its price range ($475). At the price you get two class-A preamp channels with extremely nice, uncolored sound and extremely high headroom.

There are others and everyone has his own favorite.

Bob

i'll second that bob. sometimes i prefer my fmr preamp to the apogee pres in my apogee ensemble. just a little bit different, and that's sometimes all it takes.

play music!

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

And one more opinion: If you can tell that your preamp isn't what it needs to be, perhaps the next consideration should be quality rather than type. I have had the privilege to work with a variety of preamps, tubed and solid state, and the biggest difference hasn't been between tube and solid state but between poor quality and high quality. Some of the finest sounding preamps I've worked with have been class-A, solid state Neve preamps. Of course, quality costs money. Fortunately there are some interesting middle-cost preamps. Among those is the FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp. Though not a sexy looking device, it is considered by many to be the best in its price range ($475). At the price you get two class-A preamp channels with extremely nice, uncolored sound and extremely high headroom.

There are others and everyone has his own favorite.

Bob

I happen to have one of these FMR units for sale at the moment. PM me if interested.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Todd,

As inferred above, you MUST spend professional-level dough to receive the benefits AND QUALITY of a professional-level tube preamp. That goes for your entire recording signal chain as well. Ya don't want to mix quality studio grade gear with cheap, entry-level stuff. It kills headroom. The stuff marketed to guitarists is usually not in the pro-level studio category. What improvements are you seeking to your current sound, Todd?

Kev's A Designs MP-2A is a great tube preamp as is my Pendulum MDP-1a tube preamp. But both are over $2K. I don't always prefer tube preamps to solid state, but the MDP-1a was the best I've ever heard/auditioned in combo w/ the mic's I use. However, the sonic differences are very subtle at best among QUALITY preamps but there ARE noticeable differences with different preamp/mic combo's. Of course, I would NOT combine such a preamp into a signal chain w/ a mix of other entry-level gear (like $100 interfaces & mic's) - counter-productive.

BTW, the quality (or lack thereof) of the onboard mic preamps of your inexpensive, entry-level Tascam interface unit is OK for beginners. But maybe it's time to move up to an RME or Apogee (if you're on a Mac) interface. They both have excellent onboard preamps & are not that expensive. FMR Audio also provides a nice, basic preamp that's very good @ an affordable price. Ya know Todd, it may be that your interface's poor onboard mic pre's may actually be the weak link in your current rig. FWIW, I use Apogee interfaces in my recording signal chain. Love 'em.

For recording my vocals, I prefer to use a quality vocal tube LDC mic, no matter the style of preamp. Just a preference for my voice. I record solo acoustic guitar using a matched pair of high end SDC's in stereo. Mic choice makes a larger difference in sound than preamp choice, IMO, as long as your signal chain is planned using quality, complementary elements. Cheaper preamps won't make a positive sonic difference at all, & in fact can make your recordings sound compressed, mid-rangey, noisy or un-open sounding. Ha! However, the right preamp combined w/ the right mic of the same quality? That's the ticket! When both mic & preamp are high-end & matched to each other & then to the right voice or instrument....!

You should audition some tube & solid state preamps @ recording studio's (rent time) to hear the differences among the different types & levels of mic preamp's. Do the same w/ better quality interfaces. I used to rent several pre's at a time for a weekend (cheaper rates) & do shoot-outs on my home recording rig. That's why I chose the MDP-1a - after direct comparison on the same recording chain w/ other preamps in the same price range. That's also a great way to audition studio mic's.

Questions:
Exactly what elements (brands) are in your current recording signal chain?
What type of mic preamps are in your current interface?
What brands & price range of preamps have you been looking at?
What 'gains' would you expect to receive from a tube preamp - for vocals or guitar or what?

The answers may help us point you in a better direction.

Good Luck, Todd!

alohachris

+1

Todd, in addition, here's what I've found; Good solid state devices are better than bad tube devices. Good tube devices are better than bad solid state devices.

Good analog is better than bad digital. Good digital is better than bad analog.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Andy Howell]

While agreeing with many of the comments here you might gain. Not all interface preamps give you all the gain you might need and a cheap preamp might help. The ART range sound pretty reasonable to me and have been well reviewed by a number of serious magazines.

I use an now relatively old Editol FireWire interface. I wish this would give me a little more gain and have wondered about a preamp but I suspect I would get more out of moving to something like a Focusrite - I would love 4 XLR inputs.

I suppose the bottom line is that this will not necessarily be a good move - it won't automatically give you big improvements. As been said you have to consider the whole signal chain and consider where you might get improvement from your current gear.

Finally - and speaking personally - I would get the best improvement from improving my own technique, much as I would like to ignore the reality of this!

[ukejon]

But maybe it's time to move up to an RME or Apogee (if you're on a Mac) interface. They both have excellent onboard preamps & are not that expensive. FMR Audio also provides a nice, basic preamp that's very good @ an affordable price. Ya know Todd, it may be that your interface's poor onboard mic pre's may actually be the weak link in your current rig.

This is what I was thinking. Todd, what gear do you have in your recording chain?

[rick-slo]

For a little vintage, tube type warmth, rather than a tube amp you might look at some neve 1073 clone preamp (for example something from Great River or Vintech).

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

For a little vintage, tube type warmth, rather than a tube amp you might look at some neve 1073 clone preamp (for example something from Great River or Vintech).

Neither of these units are what could be though of as "bang for the buck." I've never used any Vintech stuff but can vouch for the Great Rivers. they are the most used mic pre-amps in my studio.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

Neither of these units are what could be though of as "bang for the buck." I've never used any Vintech stuff but can vouch for the Great Rivers. they are the most used mic pre-amps in my studio.

Most certainly fairly pricey (Great River more so). I have one of Great River's discontinued preamps, the MP2MH. Pete Huttlinger is a fan of Vintech, the x81's I believe. I am not aware of what low cost neve clones type preamps might be out there.