Larrivee guitars

[NELANB]

Originally Posted by Daddyo

I own a Larrivee L03R and think it is a great guitar. Taylors are great guitars too but generally cost more. The 03 series is such a good deal because you aren't paying for the fancy bindings and gloss lacquer. Satin finish and ivoroid (plastic) bindings. The guitar itself is the same quality materials of any of the upper models - all solid wood. Larrivees tend to have a more balanced voice than Taylors which often seem voiced too much in the high frequencies.

Man, I love my Taylor

[david_m]

It's the subtle nuance of assembly that makes the difference as witnessed by Olson and Ryan. Both are CNC'd but hand assembled to a degree of precision that you just cant teach the average $10.00/hr factory worker.

I disagree to a point. I don't think it's the assembly that makes the difference. It's the individual attention to detail placed on every part of the contruction that makes the difference. The individually hand tuned top and brances have more to do wtih the tone than the way the materials are glued to gether.

I've been told that Kevin Ryan has actually bragged to other luthiers that his shop is jigged up enough that virtually any high school graduate could assemble a Ryan guitar. It's not the assembly; it's the individually voiced and created parts that are well assembled.

Also, to make sure this thread sort of stays on track, I have a Larrivee OM03. I bought it to be a dedicated gig guitar. I wanted something that sounded good, but if it got a ding on it I wouldn't have a heart attack. It's a great guitar for the price I paid. For the money, I definitely prefer it to the lower level Martins and Taylors. I wouldn't necessarily call it superior in tone to the Martins or Taylors, but I would say that the price structure for the lower end Larrivees makes a LOT more sense than the prices for the lower end Martins and Taylors. In my mind, Tayor has REALLY lost sight of the price / value equation in their 100 and 200 series instruments.

David

[hcole]

Originally Posted by david_m

I disagree to a point. I don't think it's the assembly that makes the difference. It's the individual attention to detail placed on every part of the contruction that makes the difference. The individually hand tuned top and brances have more to do wtih the tone than the way the materials are glued to gether.

I've been told that Kevin Ryan has actually bragged to other luthiers that his shop is jigged up enough that virtually any high school graduate could assemble a Ryan guitar. It's not the assembly; it's the individually voiced and created parts that are well assembled.

I don't know, I think you could probably tune the top and braces to perfection but if the construction is such that there isn't good sound transfer happening the guitar is gonna be a dog.

The real test is to let Ryan tune the top and braces and let some high school kid assemble the guitar on their own.

[ronmac]

Originally Posted by david_m

In my mind, Tayor has REALLY lost sight of the price / value equation in their 100 and 200 series instruments.David

Don't just blame them. It's also the buyer's responsibility to know the difference.

[david_m]

Don't just blame them. It's also the buyer's responsibility to know the difference.

There's no blame. I agree it's the buyer's responsibility. That's why I ended up with a Larrivee eventhough I prefer Taylors.

David

[Beachcomber]

But what's the story with the lack of cover strips over the butt joints between the ladder braces on the backs of the L-03R ?

Or maybe all Larrivees are made this way ?

My concern is for durability of this joint as I own an L-03R, but here in Australia we don't get a Larrivee lifetime warranty.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by dreamsinger

...It's the subtle nuance of assembly that makes the difference as witnessed by Olson and Ryan. Both are CNC'd but hand assembled to a degree of precision that you just cant teach the average $10.00/hr factory worker.

Hi JD...
Neither James Olson nor Kevin Ryan CNC all the parts to their guitars. James CNCs the neck and some of the inlay. The rest is done by hand, and he will still carve a neck by hand if the purchaser needs something he is not setup for with his CNC machine.

The last I knew (was in Jame's shop in June 2005, & talked at length with Kevin at Healdsburg in August), they both sculpt braces and, and thin and voice the tops & backs by hand.

Originally Posted by david m

I've been told that Kevin Ryan has actually bragged to other luthiers that his shop is jigged up enough that virtually any high school graduate could assemble a Ryan guitar. It's not the assembly; it's the individually voiced and created parts that are well assembled.

David...
I've been around Kevin Ryan, and have never heard Kevin brag that high school kids could assemble his guitars (nor from any luthiers I've discussed his guitars with). He is a very humble, and very talented luthier, well respected by others in the luthier community, who voices each of his guitars with care and skill. I'd be shocked to hear Kevin say something like the quote you attribute to him.

Jigging only speeds parts of the building process, but doesn't make the process any less precise, nor does it automate it.

I'm not sure where these stories get started about builders, nor where misinfomation comes from, but do want to chime in on this as I have spent time in Jim's shop, and talked for about 1/2 hour with Kevin in person about his process. They are both very hands on builders, and both backlogged with orders.

[dreamsinger]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

But what's the story with the lack of cover strips over the butt joints between the ladder braces on the backs of the L-03R ?

Or maybe all Larrivees are made this way ?

My concern is for durability of this joint as I own an L-03R, but here in Australia we don't get a Larrivee lifetime warranty.

Butt joints are difficult to do well. Jean is proud enough of his to leave them out where everybody can see them. My OMV-09K doesn't have the strips either. It's the last place you'll have trouble with a Larrivee. The strip on the inside and outside is a handy way to cover a multitude of sins. Jean's just showing off by not putting them in.

[Randal_S]

Originally Posted by dreamsinger

Butt joints are difficult to do well. Jean is proud enough of his to leave them out where everybody can see them. My OMV-09K doesn't have the strips either. It's the last place you'll have trouble with a Larrivee. The strip on the inside and outside is a handy way to cover a multitude of sins. Jean's just showing off by not putting them in.

Odd... Martin must be proud of the joints on their "lower-end" guitars, but not on the high-end stuff. Maybe Larrivee's proud, but I bet it also saves them a few bucks.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by dreamsinger

Butt joints are difficult to do well. Jean is proud enough of his to leave them out where everybody can see them. My OMV-09K doesn't have the strips either. It's the last place you'll have trouble with a Larrivee. The strip on the inside and outside is a handy way to cover a multitude of sins. Jean's just showing off by not putting them in.

Thanks Dreamsinger you've given me a straight and reassuring answer there mate. I've emailed Larrivee about this question asking about this part of Larrivee construction as opposed to "conventional" techniques, but just got an enigmatic one line answer ~ "Jean Larrivee is anything but conventional."

Aussie customers are probably an insignificant part of the Larrivee market so maybe they don't want to spend too much time on us, especially blokes like me who have to pay rrp AUD $2850 for an entry level guitar.

[dreamsinger]

Originally Posted by Randal_S

Odd... Martin must be proud of the joints on their "lower-end" guitars, but not on the high-end stuff. Maybe Larrivee's proud, but I bet it also saves them a few bucks.

Martin's pretty much bound by tradition on their older, higher end models. After all, what's a HD-28 without a zipper strip down the back. Yes, it is cheaper. As for the vanity thing, I got it directly from Jean.

[dreamsinger]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Thanks Dreamsinger you've given me a straight and reassuring answer there mate. I've emailed Larrivee about this question asking about this part of Larrivee construction as opposed to "conventional" techniques, but just got an enigmatic one line answer ~ "Jean Larrivee is anything but conventional."

Aussie customers are probably an insignificant part of the Larrivee market so maybe they don't want to spend too much time on us, especially blokes like me who have to pay rrp AUD $2850 for an entry level guitar.

That's about $2150 USD. What constitutes an entry level guitar in Oz?

[DavidHoffman]

Originally Posted by dreamsinger

Martin's pretty much bound by tradition on their older, higher end models. After all, what's a HD-28 without a zipper strip down the back. Yes, it is cheaper. As for the vanity thing, I got it directly from Jean.

I was questioining the "back side" of Larrivee's and here is what I got back from the Larrivee forum.

As far as I know, all Larrivee guitars have a two piece back. The fact that there is no centre seam backstrip is a testament to their fine woodworking skills (nothing to hide).

A one piece back would be OK too, if it were quartersawn (you would need a very large log.). Using a two piece quartersawn back allows you to take advantage of smaller dimension logs. Actually 3 or 4 piece backs would be OK too, but that bucks tradition (with the exception of the Martin D35, and some Brazillian back sets) and that hurts sales!

Here is the link to that thread if you are interested.

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8439.0

[Randal_S]

Originally Posted by dreamsinger

As for the vanity thing, I got it directly from Jean.

Oh.

Since the seam-strip is glued over the butt-joint, wouldn't it make sense that having the strip there would make the joint less prone to separation?

Makes sense to me, regardless of tradition or issues of vanity.

[woodchuck]

Woodworking skill or cost saving? My Larrivee parlor has no center seam strip, Taylor 314 no strip, Taylor K-10 has the seam strip!