DPA 4099 G vs.Neumann KM 184 vs. pickup

marklm · #1 08-18-2016, 10:38 AM

I currently have an AER 40W, and an AER 60 which I will sell soon. I have the top of the line B Band pickup with preamp in one steel string guitar, as well as a great classical and steel string with no electronics currently in them. As a purist I would like to avoid putting electronics into the steel string and certainly the classical, however plugging in a pickup is so convenient, and I have to admit that the dual source B Band pickup sounds awesome. I have tried to work with the Neumann mike, (which I could sell also,) on my pure acoustic, but since this is totally new to me, I am having high pitched feedback and placement issues, basically being at the beginning of the learning curve on mikes.
I am most interested in the DPA 4099, but I don't have an opportunity to demo one. It is the perhaps best compromise for me in that I don't have to cut into two beautiful hand made guitars. The downside is that I would have to assemble it onto each instrument that doesn't currently plug in, but that is probably an acceptable compromise as a guesstimate.
I play 90% for myself, but hope to venture out to do more public appearances. They will be informal places, with background noise and semi serious listening at best by my audience. The bottom line is that I want to enjoy it when playing complex fingerstyle type stuff, over 50% altered tunings, etc. while home alone. The AER's give me such gorgeous sound.

Doug Young · #2 08-19-2016, 07:24 PM

The DPA 4099 will be quite similar to the KM184, except mounted on your guitar. I wouldn't say it's particularly less feedback prone, other than that it ends up so close to the guitar that it may require less gain. You probably can't maintain the KM184 at like 2 inches from the body the way you can the attached mic. In my experience, mics and amps don't go well together. Even with a nice amp like an AER, its very hard to get enough volume before feedback. Depends on how loud you need to be of course, but it takes very little volume to get a mic to feedback with an amp, at least in my experience. If I use an amp, I use a pickup. If I can use a good quality PA system in a quiet room, a KM184 works great. The 4099 would work equally well, tho there are some tradeoffs, like a tendency for it to pick up body noises - your arm or shirt brushing against the guitar, you breathing (since it tends to be close), etc.

Andy Howell · #3 08-20-2016, 01:59 AM

Tend to agree with Doug.

I like using a mic when I can but this is usually with a PA and subtly places monitors. I have an AER 60. I can - in my rehearsal space - use a decent mic blended with the pickup through a Headway preamp. This preamp has a notch filter that allows me to raise the gain level of the mic a bit but not really enough to make a big difference. In a small space you are always on a hiding to nothing. My mic is a good sounding Beyerdynamic 930 which is reasonably feedback free but in that small space ....

On the other hand - in a decent room and playing solo with a PA - I have been able to blend mic and pickup with the bulk of the signal being mic.

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marklm · #4 08-21-2016, 06:20 PM

Thank you Andy and Doug! I will definitely go with the pickup and save the frustration.

Schau_ins_Regal · #5 08-22-2016, 08:07 AM

I had a 4099 and sold it cause I think it is neither fish nor fowl.

I´d recommend a pickup - maybe complemented by an internal mic - for live use and louder envirements.

For quiet applications I would take a small condenser mic as the KM184.

I changed the 4099 to Dazzo and internal 4061. The 4061 actually delivers much more gain before feedback than the 4099.

min7b5 · #6 08-22-2016, 11:26 AM

I used a KM184 for into an AER Alpha for a while. It's a solid rig, plenty loud for what I was doing with it. It wouldn't be my first mic choice, but it's a very good one. I prefer a large diaphragm condenser most of the time. I just prefer the sound, and personally find the gain before feedback to be similar to a pencil mic, despite conventional wisdom. I've honestly never tried mounting a mic to my guitar, and have no desire to. My feeling is that I'm very happy with the sound of a freestanding mic, I'm always seated, and most of all, the ability to work the mic like a singer, moving in and in for different volumes and tones is very important to me. If I need to be a louder for bigger/trickier rooms I'm very happy with a good old SM58 on my guitar too

hotroad · #7 08-22-2016, 09:37 PM

Currently using with great effect and volume a dual source. One is the DPA 4061 mounted internally but down deep in the body. This location keeps feedback low since it cannot 'see' the amp from where it sits. The other source is a M80 sound hole. The combo is most likely the most all around awesome tone I have ever heard and that includes most every combo of pickup, mic and amp. Just stumbled on this combo but it sure is awesome. The mix between the two is about 50% to 50% mic and pu.