Locked replacement tuners for a 1973 Guild 12 string

[Paulrb]

Hi all. I just recently purchased a 1973 Guild F212 12 string. It’s a great guitar, but one thing I’ve noticed is that the tuners need to be replaced. I am considering locking tuners as that would ease the pain of restringing Another former member, kindly suggested Sperzels but I was wondering about other options. Looking for lighter tuners with a good gear ratio for smoother, more accurate tuning. Finding a replacement that would avoid a lot of new drilling would also be great. Any recommendations from fellow 12 string owners out there?

[Silly Moustache]

I don't understand the logic of "locking" tuners. They can't influence anything that happens from tuner tp nut,nut to saddle and saddle to pin hole, or tailpiece - whatever.

I have two perfectly usable 12 strings from the mid sixties with original worn 6 on a plate Waverley tuners which are far from perfect.

I think that the best approach to 12 strings is to

a) be able to identify the less than perfect note(s) out of 12, and adjust quickly and

b) accept that a perfectly tuned 12 string is an audible mirage, or a unicorn.

[FingahPickah]

My 1987 Guild JF65-12 string came stock with Grover mini tuners.

I've always used my own string locking technique with minimal windings around the post. (Martin, Taylor and others have YouTube how-to videos with their own approaches/techniques).

Tuning and staying in tune has never really been too much of an issue. Not enough to the claim the "half the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune" dilemma.

I have no personal experience with locking tuners (...well, not yet).

After talking with other players who do have locking tuners, my understanding is that they make string changes a bit easier, faster by locking the string to the post (almost eliminating wraps around the post) thus reducing slippage - but do not actually "lock" the string in-tune, but they do help.

I'm awaiting delivery of a new Reverend Airwave electric 12 (in Midnight Black finish). https://reverendguitars.com/guitars/airwave-12-string/
(ETA mid-May).

The reviews are very positive from gigging musicians who applaud them for playability, intonation (w/ 12 individual adjustable saddles), tuning "stability" and, of course, sound.

"Is it May yet?"

[Paulrb]

My rationale for replacing the old tuners with locking (not locked!) tuners is to ease the hassle of restringing 12 strings the conventional way. Improved tuning is not my primary reason to change, however, given my less than stellar restringing skills, it might help there as well (poor wrapping around the post = poor/imprecise/difficult tuning).

[Charlie Bernstein]

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[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Paulrb

My rationale for replacing the old tuners with locking (not locked!) tuners is to ease the hassle of restringing 12 strings the conventional way. Improved tuning is not my primary reason to change, however, given my less than stellar restringing skills, it might help there as well (poor wrapping around the post = poor/imprecise/difficult tuning).

Buying twelve locking tuners seems like a big waste of money. Just learn to change strings properly. You might look up luthier's knot in Google or YouTube. Once tightened, luthier's knots (a.k.a. roadie knots) don't slip.

Now that that's settled: Congratulations on a fabulous guitar! Old Guild twelves are coveted for a reason.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Buying twelve locking tuners seems like a big waste of money. Just learn to change strings properly. You might look up luthier's knot in Google or YouTube. Once tightened, luthier's knots (a.k.a. roadie knots) don't slip.

Now that that's settled: Congratulations on a fabulous guitar! Old Guild twelves are coveted for a reason.

I have to agree with Charlie. I think you'll find the luthier's knot is the right way to go. A few other suggestions:

1. use coated strings so you need 1/2 as frequent changes
2. when you wind the octave (high g) string, leave as many windings as possible.
3. the rest of the strings do require much slack or windings aside from the knot.

[HogsNRoses]

Hi all,

I’ll be contrarian and endorse locking tuners. They are generally easy to use, and not much more expensive. The downside for a 12 string is weight. Several tips:

Buy a tuner that matches the holes in your guitar. Here are two that would fit my 2010ish F212:

https://a.co/d/bFoKu7o

https://guitarhey.com/products/new-g...set-3x3-chrome

Check the headstock thickness carefully - locking tuners generally have shorter posts for an electric.

Choose a convenient locking style - Schaller, for instance, has a feature to hold the string that makes them harder to thread.

Get tuners with small buttons.

Don’t use locking tuners with strings that have a silk wrap. Maybe also a round core. The reason is the locking mechanism can pull the wraps off the core as you tighten the string.

I don’t have locking tuners on my 12s because the Furch headstock is thick and the Gibson’s holes are in the wrong spot.

[Paulrb]

Thanks for the opinions all; I had no idea locking tuners were so controversial. And thanks especially, Hogs, for the tips and tuner suggestions.