NK Forster Guitars - "soundboard topography" experiment

[Andy Howell]

Sounds a fascinating experiment Nigel. Not sure why you should avoid wenge though. I guess most customers will still order the rosewood type backs.


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[RodB]

What an interesting proposition, and thread to follow. I have been intrigued by your HO inspired designs, and the video above of Tom playing the C-HO sounds so good.

May I ask why you chose the S guitar and not the C that you mention above as being especially successful with the cylinder top?

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by RodB

What an interesting proposition, and thread to follow. I have been intrigued by your HO inspired designs, and the video above of Tom playing the C-HO sounds so good.

May I ask why you chose the S guitar and not the C that you mention above as being especially successful with the cylinder top?

Pretty practical reasons - Much as I love the Model C, I've no recent S-SS or S-HO photos for the website and I've a few Model C's on order. So making a pair will kill several birds so to speak.

n
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by Andy Howell

Sounds a fascinating experiment Nigel. Not sure why you should avoid wenge though. I guess most customers will still order the rosewood type backs.


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Much of my work goes to the US so I'm happy if they order other woods than CITES ones. As you'll see later in the thread, the wood that goes on the outside of my guitars has less influence on the sound than a normal guitar.

Most of us think along the lines of wenge sounding "like this" and maple sounding "like that." But I'm a lot less convinced by this way of thinking than I used to be. I go over it a bit in this interview from a couple of years ago.

Once you start laminating sides or making double/triple sides, those traditional ways of attributing sonic qualities no longer apply. You're doubling the mass and greatly increasing stiffness. The fact it might be rosewood on the outside or wenge or whatever else starts becoming irrelevant. Knowing this is a big help if you're trying to wean yourself of rosewood. If you're not aware, all you're going to experience is "rosewood grief."

n
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by ukrobbiej1

I bet a maple bodied guitar would be amazing. I've played a lot of maple bodied guitars, some truly high end ones at Tamco, as well as a couple of Brooks, and I have enjoyed enjoyed every single one of them.

What is your current thinking on the bridge design Nigel?

Robbie

This year I'm making stuff with a more traditional shape bridge. I actually prefer the "postage stamp" bridge I've used the last couple of years. And it's EASY to make a very loud instrument with that bridge design.

But I did a full review of my work at the end of last year - I experiment so much it's easy to keep changing, keep changing. For anyone familiar with my work, who has followed me for years, the changes all make sense (I hope) but for anyone coming to my work anew, the reaction is often "what's that?" So to stop every now and again and take stock is a good idea. As far as guitars go, it should be the ears that come first, but in truth, for most of us, it's the eyes. So I'm going back to making some more classy looking work - the decoration and the bridge design. My binding and purfling was getting more and more (or is it less and less?) minimal. And whilst I like it, being super minimal (which is where the work was heading) gets a bit boring. Rather than going down the "decoration" route which really doesn't interest me much, I have developed a bit of a taste for "fancy" woods, and framing those with jet black rocklite binding and simple purfling looks really classy. If I say so meself.

n
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/blog/

[N K Forster]

Sanding tops down at the local cabinet shop...



Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Andy Howell]

For fingerstyle I prefer the x braced HO


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[N K Forster]

Think I'm leaning towards sapele.

nigel

www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Tim Porter]

Nigel, I'm following your thread with great interest. I have four Sobells, one of which is a Model 1 in which you participated in the build. I look forward to seeing how your two variations play out. You build such beautiful instruments and I'm eager to see them develop! Tim

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by Tim Porter

Nigel, I'm following your thread with great interest. I have four Sobells, one of which is a Model 1 in which you participated in the build. I look forward to seeing how your two variations play out. You build such beautiful instruments and I'm eager to see them develop! Tim

I'm not expecting one to be "better" than the other Tim, but it will be interesting to hear the differences. And I'm sure everyone who tries will have their preferences. You fancy being on the "try out" list?

I strung up that Model D (in another thread) last week and it has SS top, it's really great. And very different again from my regular guitars. And the shape is basically a "fat" Model S.

What year are your Sobells?

nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Tim Porter]

Nigel, I'd definitely fancy being on the try out list if the guitars come to the US. My Sobells are (l to r, below):

Octave Mandolin--August 2003
Martin Simpson model--February 2011
Model 1--June 2003 (label has both your and Stefan's names)
Model 0E--November 2003 (Model 0 12 fret with "E"xtended body)

[IMG][/IMG]

The Models 1 and 0E are brazilian, the Octave Mandolin is cedar/cocobolo, and the MS model is wenge.

[N K Forster]

Nice looking collection Tim. Going by the date I may well have had something to do with the zouk too. No recollection though - we made hundreds of those! Oh, and the OE. Stefan gave me the boot in November 2003, so for the next few months the stuff that came out the workshop still had my handiwork.

Back to the current project.

What do you think of the sapele back Tim? That or this birds eye maple:






nigel

www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Tim Porter]

I am in love with that sapele.

I feel that the sapele, being mahogany-like and thus a more known quantity, might be a better choice than maple. I'm not sure why I believe this, but maple might have a unique enough tonality that someone deciding on a guitar from you in the future might not get what he or she expects when they order an SS or HO top because the back and sides are a more rare or unusual choice in the guitar that was the basis of their decision.

Or, the maple. It's beautiful.

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by Tim Porter

I am in love with that sapele.

I feel that the sapele, being mahogany-like and thus a more known quantity, might be a better choice than maple. I'm not sure why I believe this, but maple might have a unique enough tonality that someone deciding on a guitar from you in the future might not get what he or she expects when they order an SS or HO top because the back and sides are a more rare or unusual choice in the guitar that was the basis of their decision.

Or, the maple. It's beautiful.

Because I build with laminated sides, the tonewoods for the back and sides no longer act as they do normally. So your Rio Sobells sound like they do because the European spruce top is attached to Rio sides. Of all traditional woods, Rio "detracts" the least from the soundboard. Maple and sapele detract more, and in differing ways. When I say "detract", I mean, they allow the soundboard vibrations to "wick" into the sides.

I'm convinced sides have more effect tonally than the back does. Yeas ago I made a few guitars that had Rio sides and an Indian back. They were superb. They sounded like Rio guitars pretty much. And I never really understood why. Until I started laminating sides.

Once you start laminating sides, and reach a certain mass and stiffness, the materials start to become irrelevant. So, for this experiment, it really just comes down to looks. The sound you'll get is the sound of spruce. Not spruce and sapele, or spruce and maple. Just spruce. The sides and back will be laminated out of several layers of lighter wood. The sapele will just be decoration. Very nice decoration mind...

Anyway, I had a spare hour today so...









I've made both rosettes exactly the same. Hopefully I can scrape them down the next few days.




Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Tim Porter]

Nigel, thanks for the fascinating response. Tim