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  #16  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:42 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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FAZOOL's method is the method that was taught to me in the beginning... Although I admittedly ignored the instruction for a few years.

Plowing through a piece can subconsciously get mistakes imbedded into your practice.. You end up practicing those mistakes in fingering, timing, etc..

My current process is to work on 2-3 bars at a time until I have the left and right hand fingerings down.

It's a tedious process when you are looking at 3-4 pages of an arrangement, but I'd rather get things right from the beginning than have to go back and correct mistakes.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:42 AM
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Yes, work the tough sections until they are easy, but.....

When I was in the 5th grade we were assigned a poem to memorize so we could recite it to the class. I was so happy that I memorized the entire poem and gleefully volunteered to be the first one to recite it. So I did. The teacher (who was notorious for playing favorites which I was not one of) quickly critized me for just blurting the words out without any care to their presentation or the message of the poem.

Something can be easy to play, but playing it smoothly and musically for the listener is just as important as proper execution. They are intertwined. You can't have one without the other.
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Old 07-14-2017, 02:55 PM
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Another tip I've picked up from years of working on pieces on various instruments: when you're working on small difficult sections of a piece, it can be valuable to sometimes start at the *end*, working on those passages, and working back towards the beginning.

The idea is, we get mentally (and physically) tired while working on things, and when you only start at the beginning, by the time you reach the end (if you do), you're not concentrating as well as needed. Starting from the end sometimes lets you practice those parts while still fresh, mentally and physically.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:52 PM
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Obvious yes, but the willingness to practice that way is what's to be celebrated. Good for you.
Indeed
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:42 PM
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How fun to see this thread float to the top, months after the original post.

So now I'm back with Steven King, my fingerstyle teacher (some of you might know who he is), and he is not a metronome kinda guy. However, he IS the kinda guy who strongly, no...wait...STRONGLY...encourages me to go over 'itty bitty' bits of the song, 10, 20 even 40 times, until I can play them smoothly. So, I'm talking about fingering changes from one measure to the next, or even w/in one measure! In other words, don't focus on playing the whole song, focus instead on those parts that trip me up.

Gotcha, SK!

Luckily, I am a meditator at heart, and so this is pretty easy for me. My goal is not to play a song smoothly and cleanly, in its entirety. Instead, my goal is ALWAYS to understand the song and its structure. My second goal is to be able to execute the song (i.e., just be able to play it, albeit mechanically). The gravy, for me at least, is to be able to play a song smoothly and with feeling, etc. Luckily, I have no desire to perform for others. This truly is a solo project.

So, in summary, for me, right now, learning to play fingerstyle solo guitar (acoustic), is still a puzzle to be worked. I'm quite content with that.
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  #21  
Old 07-15-2017, 01:35 AM
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These little bits that are difficult and need extra work, or 'itty bitty bits' are difficult for a reason. There will be a reason, maybe more than one, why they are difficult (it might be a fretting problem, it might be a picking problem or a combination of both) and it will help if you can identify specifics of the problem. Knowing why a bit is difficult can help produce a strategy to overcome the difficulty. It will also help you integrate the solution into the whole piece.

The principle is you will learn anything you repeat. If you have repeatedly played a 'tricky bit' out of time or incorrectly, you will have learned that error as a part of how you play that piece. You now have to

a, learn how to play the itty bitty bit correctly and

b, integrate it with what comes before it, and sometimes with what comes after it.

The integration bit can be helped by setting a mental 'flag' a bar or more earlier reminding yourself that the 'itty bitty bit' is coming up.

This flagging of the impending bit will be needed until the learning of the revision is stronger than the learning of the original mistake. The older you get, the longer this can take. Guess how I know.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:42 AM
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Best practice tool I ever bought was an ipad, which I use, more or less, solely for that purpose. I use mine docked on a Focusrite itrack Dock and a modest, but decent pair of monitors (PreSonus Eris E4.5, which are perfect for this purpose). There's an incredible app called Anytune which, once you know how to use it, absolutely knocks the spots of things like the Tascam guitar trainers, even has a feature that loops the section you want to practice 10 times gradually increasing the speed with each repetition if you want it to!

The great thing about the ipad is that I can line up the tune I'm learning (which I store into the Anytune song list) then also use one of those online active guitar tabs (I'm currently using Songster) and then I have everything I need on one handy device.

If I'm practicing with electric, or decide to plug my electro-acoustic in, I can also use some effects and amp simulation (I use Positive Grid), which are more than fit for purpose and also includes a tuner etc.

I also run an app called Guitar Toolkit in the background which has chord/scale information etc. and even a programmable drum machine if I need it (and if you know anything about ipads you'll know I can have all the above, or whatever else I need, running simultaneously and pull up whatever I need at will).

I also have a dedicated (small) place in the house which I have this set up and which I now associate solely with practice and being focused etc., which really does help.

To be honest it's probably not the cheapest of set ups but I definitely practice much more since I put this in place, which I funded by selling just one guitar that I wasn't using much at all and so had become nothing more than an (expensive!) ornament.

Ultimately, there's no substitute for good old fashioned focus and organised discipline but I can honestly say this set up is loaded with convenience and has put the fun back into practice, for me at least. 😊
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:44 AM
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Best practice tool I ever bought was an ipad, which I use, more or less, solely for that purpose. I use mine docked on a Focusrite itrack Dock and a modest, but decent pair of monitors (PreSonus Eris E4.5, which are perfect for this purpose). There's an incredible app called Anytune which, once you know how to use it, absolutely knocks the spots of things like the Tascam guitar trainers, even has a feature that loops the section you want to practice 10 times gradually increasing the speed with each repetition if you want it to!
I hadn't heard of this app, so I looked it up. I'm often struck by the way guitarists talk about things using the same words, but are actually coming from completely different perspectives. As far as I can tell, this app is for playing by ear, right? Someone who plays from a score would have a completely different practice experience. One of the best things about learning music and guitar to me is how very much it varies for different people and different styles. Cool.
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  #24  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:57 AM
Martie Martie is offline
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Yes, Anytune is for playing by ear, but the Coop thing about an ipad is that you can get the score/tab up on the same device and cross-reference 😊
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:58 AM
Martie Martie is offline
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Cool! (Coop! Darn predictive txt!) 😊
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:58 AM
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Yes, Anytune is for playing by ear, but the Coop thing about an ipad is that you can get the score/tab up on the same device and cross-reference ��
I think that's true on any computer, but still cool. I certainly couldn't learn music without my laptop and the internet.
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  #27  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:11 AM
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I do not teach, but I do mentor friends who like to play and want me to "show them some stuff."

I usually show them that they are not chained to the original key and how to adjust this if needed.

I tell them to break the song down into it's elements and attack each element, then put it back together.

I also stress dynamics, which I think are essential for repetitive songs like The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald or Darcy Farrow, wherein the verses are all the same and there is no bridge. As you progress in the song change something in the presentation of the verse each time around - get louder, get softer, pedal a bass note, use different chord inversions - what ever might differentiate this verse from the others. As an example I often point to the live version of Jimmy Buffett's Son of a Sailor.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:09 AM
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This is an interesting thread. So here are a couple of comments from my own practice...

My ideal music practice computer is the Microsoft Surface. At the time I purchased, the sweet spot in the lineup (i.e. bang for the buck due to whatever sale was going on) was the i5 with 256GB SSD. The Surface runs the full desktop Windows 10, so it is not scaled down in any way. You can run whatever you would run on a desktop Windows PC. The Surface also takes a microSD card, so you can add additional storage. The largest I have found locally is 256 GB, so I have plenty of storage for video and audio files.

I use Transcribe!, which can also slow down and loop videos as well as audio. I will also use Adobe Acrobat Touch for PDFs. I can easily run both at the same time, if necessary. Those are my two main tools. I also have Forte for notation and to play midi files.

As for learning tunes, the best approach for me, I learned from the David Sudnow piano method. Learn measure A until you can play it smoothly by memory. Then learn measure B in the same way. Then put measures A and B together until that is smooth and memorized. Then learn measure C in the same way as the individual measures A and B. Then put measures B and C together just as you did measures A and B. Then play from the beginning (measure A) through measure C until that is smooth and memorized. continue adding new measures in this manner. This approach mimics for sheet music what I do when learning by ear (my preferred method). However, being able to both read and use my ears is the best of both worlds.

The main thing is to always practice on time, perfectly, so we don't teach our hands and muscle memory anything but the correct way to play the music.

In today's world, with all the distractions, this can be a tall order. As Carol mentioned, those who tend toward meditation will probably have an easier time adopting a practice such as described here. I know it isn't easy for me, though for whatever reason, learning a tune by ear seems to hold my attention much better than a printed page.

Also, as far as any memorization goes, I seem to retain what I hear, much better than what I get off a printed page, so for me, learning by ear is the most efficient way to do it. but, then, music is a HEARING art, so I guess that would make sense.

Edit: I find after a while that all these goodies such as the computer, DVDs, etc., become a distraction and I tend to put all that away and regain my focus with simplicity - just my classical guitar and just do arrangements and get ideas from arrangers that I hold in high regard - Stan Ayeroff, Howard Heitmeyer, Laurindo Almeida, and Harold Streeter. These are really fine arrangements for classical guitar of tunes from the Great American Songbook (standards, show tunes, etc.) and pop tunes of the day from the 40s through the 70s. Playing through arrangements by these guys is always a great exercise, and certainly more enjoyable than exercises. This is where being able to read standard notation really pays off - none of these guys wrote TAB. I don't mean to get into a TAB vs notation discussion. Instead, it is simply that there is a whole world of music out there for those who can read.

The only daily exercises I do are the following:

1. A note finding exercise I have described here on a number of occasions to keep the fretboard fresh in my fingers and mind. The result of this exercise is that I can instantly find any note, anywhere on the fretboard. I got this from Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry book.
2. Run through the CAGED forms using the note from the note finding exercise for the day as the root.
3. Play the major scale whose root is the note of the day from the note finding exercise along each string up and down, as well as within each CAGED form.

This is simply, keeps the fretboard well in hand, and only takes 2 or 3 minutes tops now that I have been doing it a long time. It helps with everything I do on the guitar. for me, simple is always best. Anything else I do such as building chords I need from the CAGED forms, I do always in the context of whatever song I am playing. For me, progress in playing comes from playing music, with exercises kept to a minimum while remaining relevant to my approach to the guitar.

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 07-15-2017 at 09:04 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2017, 01:30 PM
Martie Martie is offline
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Is interesting to hear meditation mentioned a few times as I've been a meditator for over 20 years and what I do find really difficult is when I'm helping people to play something and they just have no patience/focus, like they just want it all and they want it now. Unfortunately, when I suggest things like meditation and breathing they often look at me like I've just suggested putting on a kaftan and tip-toeing round a field of daisies singing kumbaya, which is a real shame (and then they get back to their 'normal' way of 'doing' things...and just go round in circles!) Deep breaths...
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:29 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Is interesting to hear meditation mentioned a few times as I've been a meditator for over 20 years and what I do find really difficult is when I'm helping people to play something and they just have no patience/focus, like they just want it all and they want it now. Unfortunately, when I suggest things like meditation and breathing they often look at me like I've just suggested putting on a kaftan and tip-toeing round a field of daisies singing kumbaya, which is a real shame (and then they get back to their 'normal' way of 'doing' things...and just go round in circles!) Deep breaths...
I really liked the way David Sudnow described the activity in his piano method. In earlier versions of the method, he took more time to explain the process of learning a tune, while in later versions he cut quite a bit of the "lecture" out to reduce the overall cost of the course. Luckily, I have the version with all the commentary.

Anyway, he referred in passing to the process being "Zen-like", saying that our culture does not support that kind of thing so it is up to us to develop it for ourselves. He didn't spend time on that, probably because of the response you have gotten.

Instead, the way he describes it is that (I will change this to "guitar" instead of "piano"), when you are at the guitar, you are at the guitar and not thinking about your day or anything else. If your mind wanders from focusing on the guitar gently bring it back. If you find that you are preoccupied, get up and walk away from the guitar and do something else for a while, and then come back and try again.

He said that if a person really wants to learn to play, then plan on spending an hour a day minimum at it. He said it is better to break that up into 4 15 minute sessions because we tend to get mentally tired if we force ourselves to focus intently for too long, and gradually build up to maybe half hour sessions over time. He said that we could break it up into smaller and more frequent sessions if we needed to, but 12 5 minute sessions may be a bit much. He said to adjust to how well we can focus on a given day.

He really stressed always practicing on time, slowly, going into quite a discussion about how the body really learns quite quickly, and how our bodies know where something is by when it is, which is why practicing on time is so important.

Sudnow went into quite a bit of detail about how our bodies know where something is by when it is. He used the example of reaching out to shake another person's hand or reaching for a glass of water, and how we start the movement with a pause, increase speed of movement, and then slow down as we reach the destination (the person's hand or the glass). All this is almost imperceptible to us now, but we had to learn it as little kids. These same factors come into play when teaching our bodies the movements to get around properly on our instrument.

If we make a mistake, we are teaching our bodies to make that mistake. The most efficient way to learn a tune is to not make mistakes and play on time.

He didn't advocate using a metronome, saying that our bodies have "perfect time", while a metronome has "clock time". Personally, I do use a metronome when working out some tricky timing, so I am not particularly advocating whether or not to use a metronome.

He also stressed that we should play as slowly as necessary to avoid making mistakes and to be particularly care-taking with each move, making sure we know exactly what we are to do before we do it. This is where he went into the comments about this being a "Zen-like" practice - the absolute care-taking to teach our bodies to make the right moves.

He compared practicing carelessly, making the wrong moves, to ironing a shirt. If we don't take care when ironing a shirt, we could iron in a wrinkle, and then we have to spend much more time trying to get that wrinkle out, which we never quite succeed at doing. In practice, if we make mistakes and don't stop and carefully do it right, we are treading water at best, and wasting our time at worst. The most efficient way to practice is to take extreme care to not make a mistake.

This stuff is not news, since we read quite often articles by well known musicians about practicing, where they invariably say that "slower is faster" or some variant of that idea. Sudnow just went into a lot of detail about how exactly to apply that in a very practical manner.

Presenting it in that manner, would probably not have people thinking they are expected to meditate on a mountain top.

Tony
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