Mayer vs Clapton (technique)

[dangerdong]

Both are better than me and both are great players period! I do personally prefer Mayer though

[RockerDuck]

I would just say Clapton was more creative and a trail blazer than most any guitarist now days. He did some very inovative and new timing and sounds before and during the Cream years. John Mayer only mimics other guitar players styles and riffs very good. He has not created a sound and style like Clapton did. Put 10 guitarists on stage and close your eyes. You would recognize Clapton playing or someone copying his style. I too have copied some of Claptons riffs.

[tadmania]

Originally Posted by RockerDuck

I would just say Clapton was more creative and a trail blazer than most any guitarist now days. He did some very inovative and new timing and sounds before and during the Cream years. John Mayer only mimics other guitar players styles and riffs very good. He has not created a sound and style like Clapton did. Put 10 guitarists on stage and close your eyes. You would recognize Clapton playing or someone copying his style. I too have copied some of Claptons riffs.

You can certainly feel that way, but the innovations Clapton and others made during those formative years were, by their own admissions, far outnumbered by their mimicry of American blues music. Not that it wasn't (and isn't) way cool, but it is just so.

The establishment of modern rock was a cultural milestone. My musical sensibilities are solidly informed by the music of the 60's and early 70's. That being true, I don't except to prefer newer forms over the familiar. The key is that I am listening with an ear that prefers certain music. It's not that the new and unfamiliar is necessarily inferior, it's just that my automatic preference conforms to my bias.

So, what to do (other than to believe that we know better than the guitar heroes we argue for, the logic of which I haven't ever understood) when discussions of new vs old come up? Well, we're lucky folks in the modern day. Our heroes are, by and large, still alive. Let's see what they say..... and accept the answer whether we like it or not.

If we don't do this in this case, we have to say that, whether Eric can play or not, his taste in other guitarists is rather poor. Clapton recognizes Mayer as a modern great. In that light, when you get down to it, you're arguing with Eric Clapton about how good John Mayer is, not your brothers on the AGF.


Anybody here got the chops for that?

[Gypsyblue]

I don't care much about technique. A player only has to be good enough to move me emotionally. Clapton does. Mayer (usually) doesn't.

Younger players forget how in the 1960's Clapton revolutionized guitar playing and created the tone that zillions of players still emulate and regard as the Holy Grail of tone: 50's Gibson Les Paul with paf humbuckers into a cranked Marshall amp. Add tons of blues knowledge, soul, emotion and an elegant finger vibrato like we'd never heard before or since, and you've got the best blues/rock tone ever created, IMO. (Well, the Supernatural by Peter Green was pretty tasty too!)

Even Eddie Van Halen admits learning every Clapton solo note for note. No Clapton = no Van Halen. It's all a chain and each great player is a link leading right up to the present moment.

John Mayer has done nothing innovative or ground breaking. He's just one more really, really good guitar player. He's not a creative genius or an original.

Even BB King describes EC as being a genius.

[mr. beaumont]

I dunno, I think you can look at their playing and make a conclusion that from a standpoint of technique, Mayer is more refined and he's going to be able to pull off some stuff clapton wouldn't.

I see players on this site ranking themselves all the time. I don't get that, really, I don't know where the designation for "beginner" ends and "intermediate" begins. But you can tell when a player has better chops/musical knowledge just by transcribing their lines. Or at least you can tell that they're using that knowledge, if they if have it. You can hear it in Mayer's ideas. Mayer addresses chord changes more in his soloing--you can hear it, you can transcribe it...he's drawing from a more complex pallete of sounds.

I think a half hour of transcription will tell anybody that from the standpoint of technical ability/agility and msucial knowledge, Mayer has more. Doesn't mean he's a better player, just a more "informed" player.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either...Rock guitarists love to get into those "Who's better" arguements, which I always find funny...but it comes with the territory, sometimes.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Rick Jones

I don't believe in 'better than' at that level, they both have strengths and weaknesses. I'm not a huge fan of either personally, although both can certainly outplay me!

Rick,

I don't think they can outplay you! You're most likely more diversified in your solo playing abilities and styles, and in relating to varying audiences. Not only are you good but you're an entertainer too! I defy anyone to play a more engaging solo version of "You've Got To Serve Somebody" than you do as referenced by your Avalon L32-demo video of that song.

Rick Jones - "You've Got To Serve Somebody"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBI-...eature=channel

Regards,

SpruceTop

[tadmania]

Originally Posted by Gypsyblue

I don't care much about technique. A player only has to be good enough to move me emotionally. Clapton does. Mayer (usually) doesn't.

Younger players forget how in the 1960's Clapton revolutionized guitar playing and created the tone that zillions of players still emulate and regard as the Holy Grail of tone: 50's Gibson Les Paul with paf humbuckers into a cranked Marshall amp. Add tons of blues knowledge, soul, emotion and an elegant finger vibrato like we'd never heard before or since, and you've got the best blues/rock tone ever created, IMO. (Well, the Supernatural by Peter Green was pretty tasty too!)

Even Eddie Van Halen admits learning every Clapton solo note for note. No Clapton = no Van Halen. It's all a chain and each great player is a link leading right up to the present moment.

John Mayer has done nothing innovative or ground breaking. He's just one more really, really good guitar player. He's not a creative genius or an original.

Even BB King describes EC as being a genius.

Please, bear with me......


Eddie Van Halen and BB King appraise Clapton favorably.

You appraise John Mayer negatively? (despite Clapton's praise for him)



How does that work, exactly?

[Landru]

Originally Posted by Gypsyblue

I don't care much about technique. A player only has to be good enough to move me emotionally. Clapton does. Mayer (usually) doesn't.

Clapton - megastar with multiple breakout groups and hits - copied by everyone with a recognizable style.

Meyer - also-ran in comparison with no noticeable style. Who copies JM?

You love John Meyer - I understand. You compare him with Eric Clapton - you're joking around.

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by tadmania

Please, bear with me......


Eddie Van Halen and BB King appraise Clapton favorably.

You appraise John Mayer negatively? (despite Clapton's praise for him)



How does that work, exactly?

Read what I wrote:

"John Mayer has done nothing innovative or ground breaking."

"He's just one more really, really good guitar player."

"He's not a creative genius or an original."

I think that a fair appraisal. John Mayer is a really, really good guitarist but he is NOT a creative genius or particularly original. He's just real good.

I think Landru got it right: "Clapton - megastar with multiple breakout groups and hits - copied by everyone with a recognizable style.

Meyer - also-ran in comparison with no noticeable style. Who copies JM?

You love John Meyer - I understand. You compare him with Eric Clapton - you're joking around."

Eric Clapton INVENTED the overdriven rock guitar tone we've been hearing countless wankers copy and exploit since about 1966. That's quite a creative accomplishment.

When Hendrix came to London with Chas Chandler, EC was the man he most wanted to meet...after spending a little time first with Brigitte Bardot!

[tadmania]

Right....

1) People who can play agree with you about a player you like. (and their opinions matter more to you because they can play well, too)

2) The player you like consistently praises a player you don't like. (and his opinion doesn't influence yours in a positive way)

3) You must be one incredible guitar player.

Just kidding, of course, but the point is.....



Whether you like someone or not has very little influence on others who do like that player. Eric Clapton is one such person who openly disagrees with you about John Mayer. If all the name dropping really matters when you agree, why doesn't it do the same when you disagree?

BB King, Eddie Van Halen, and now Hendrix-- their opinions about Eric matter,
but Eric's opinion of John Mayer doesn't matter, at least as much as yours does.

Do I understand?

From a Jeff Beck interview

Are there any guitarists from this era that you think in a decade will be on a Top 100 Guitarists of All Time list?

I can't really say there is. If I pick one out, the others are gonna go, 'Why didn't you choose me.' But John Mayer, he seems to be the one to fly the blues flag; he's the new Eric Clapton, I would imagine.

[WGTroutman]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Rick,

I don't think they can outplay you! You're most likely more diversified in your solo playing abilities and styles, and in relating to varying audiences. Not only are you good but you're an entertainer too! I defy anyone to play a more engaging solo version of "You've Got To Serve Somebody" than you do as referenced by your Avalon L32-demo video of that song.

Rick Jones - "You've Got To Serve Somebody"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBI-...eature=channel

Regards,

SpruceTop

I gotta agree with this. I really enjoyed, your version of that song, Mr. Jones.

[saneff]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Rick,

I don't think they can outplay you! You're most likely more diversified in your solo playing abilities and styles, and in relating to varying audiences. Not only are you good but you're an entertainer too! I defy anyone to play a more engaging solo version of "You've Got To Serve Somebody" than you do as referenced by your Avalon L32-demo video of that song.

Rick Jones - "You've Got To Serve Somebody"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBI-...eature=channel

Regards,

SpruceTop

Holy smokes. Rick Jones is unbelievable.

[Landru]

Who is Rick Jones?

[ukejon]

Rick Jones...very cool!

[stratomundo]

Originally Posted by Gypsyblue

Read what I wrote:

"John Mayer has done nothing innovative or ground breaking."

"He's just one more really, really good guitar player."

"He's not a creative genius or an original."

I think that a fair appraisal. John Mayer is a really, really good guitarist but he is NOT a creative genius or particularly original. He's just real good.

I think Landru got it right: "Clapton - megastar with multiple breakout groups and hits - copied by everyone with a recognizable style.

Meyer - also-ran in comparison with no noticeable style. Who copies JM?
You love John Meyer - I understand. You compare him with Eric Clapton - you're joking around."

Eric Clapton INVENTED the overdriven rock guitar tone we've been hearing countless wankers copy and exploit since about 1966. That's quite a creative accomplishment.

When Hendrix came to London with Chas Chandler, EC was the man he most wanted to meet...after spending a little time first with Brigitte Bardot!

That's such a weird thing to say. Disparaging John Mayer for being one of only mainstream guitarists with talent? In an age where hip hop and R&B, and manufactured pop are king, I for one am glad that he's one of the young guitarists that can acutally play and influence people to pick up the guitar along with Keith Urban, Paisley, Bonamassa. Mentioning "who copies JM?" is weird also, cause I bet he's inspired tens of thousands of people to at least pick up a strat and play. Clapton, Jeff Beck, BB King, Buddy Guy, Elton John, John Scofield have no problem with him, I don't see why anyone who honestly isn't a jerk would. But I digress...